Wanted: [Need Met] - Progressive Industries PT50C

[js415]

Any chance that one of you folks here have a PI portable 50amp protector that you do not use any more?

Our new trailer has 50amp service, and I have been using my PT30C with it, but I would like to go ahead and maybe find a nice used 50amp model.

I might even be able to trade my 30amp model with somebody if it worked out that way.

Thanks,

Jerry

[pokey]

Originally Posted by js415

Any chance that one of you folks here have a PI portable 50amp protector that you do not use any more?

Our new trailer has 50amp service, and I have been using my PT30C with it, but I would like to go ahead and maybe find a nice used 50amp model.

I might even be able to trade my 30amp model with somebody if it worked out that way.

Thanks,

Jerry

Check Amazon out. Pretty good prices for 50 amps. I recently bought a Progressive Industries 50 amp with protective cover $130. Link below.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-I...015Y9A4HU?th=1

[js415]

Thanks for the link. I may end up going that route, but I really would rather have the model that has the LED that rotates through the status of the system.

Sometimes we camp without power, and using a generator I can monitor the amperage usage.

Thanks for the suggestion,

Jerry

[W5CI]

I don't know the difference but I have the EMS-PT50X and it cost over double of what is listed in the above link. I really don't think I would consider that cheaper model until I did my research.

[67L48]

The difference is between a surge protector and EMS (Electrical Management System).

Surge protection helps to suppress a momentary surge in power from lightning or something. EMS helps protect your RV from myriad conditions, including the more insidious low voltage conditions.

Just google "surge protector vs EMS" to find a ton of articles and such.

Here's a quick lookup table that compares features between EMS and Surge Protector:

[pokey]

Originally Posted by W5CI

I don't know the difference but I have the EMS-PT50X and it cost over double of what is listed in the above link. I really don't think I would consider that cheaper model until I did my research.

Believe me I research most anything before purchasing. Something like the surge protector even more. It has great reviews not only on Amazon but other sites as well. The companies website explains what it does, how and why. Like you I started to purchase one for around $300 until I found this one.

[andymil]

That’s the difference between a surge protector and an EMS.

[67L48]

This makes no sense.

Originally Posted by pokey

Believe me I research most anything before purchasing. Something like the surge protector even more. [...]

Great, then you should truly understand the difference between a surge protector and an EMS ... and even devices like the Hughes Autoformer.

Originally Posted by pokey

[...] Like you I started to purchase one for around $300 until I found this one.

Umm, no. You weren't like him at all. He purchased an EMS. You purchased a surge protector. They aren't the same thing at all. Your research should have told you this.

I'm glad you like your surge protector, but it's not even close to an EMS ... which is, of course, reflected in the relative prices.

[pokey]

Originally Posted by 67L48

This makes no sense.

Great, then you should truly understand the difference between a surge protector and an EMS ... and even devices like the Hughes Autoformer.


Umm, no. You weren't like him at all. He purchased an EMS. You purchased a surge protector. They aren't the same thing at all. Your research should have told you this.

I'm glad you like your surge protector, but it's not even close to an EMS ... which is, of course, reflected in the relative prices.

I do understand the difference between a surge protector and an EMS. The surge protects and the EMS monitors and protects. To each their own I guess right?

[67L48]

Originally Posted by pokey

[...] The surge protects and the EMS monitors and protects. [...]

Nope. Still not correct. Enjoy your surge protector.

[Mch5jdm]

Originally Posted by 67L48

Nope. Still not correct. Enjoy your surge protector.

[emoji23]

[pokey]

Originally Posted by 67L48

Nope. Still not correct. Enjoy your surge protector.

You're correct, I just looked up the Hugh's one and it does much more than my surge protector. What you need in my opinion is how you're going to use the RV. A park where people with 50 amp, 30 amp coming and going of course the electric surges are going to fluctuate. I'm in a long term stay mobile home and RV park a bit different than the 'stay and go' RV's. Just...........

[benf]

Not to stir the pot more but I am also in the market for an EMS and have been comparing and researching. I have noticed that a lot of reviews on amazon some how get combined with different products from the same manufacturer which makes it even more confusing. Many of the less expensive units don’t even protect from surges but rather just tell you in real time if there are any issues with the wiring. I am currently not using anything but if I were to buy I am definitely going to buy one that will shut down when there is an issue and restore when power is back to normal!

[pokey]

Originally Posted by benf

Not to stir the pot more but I am also in the market for an EMS and have been comparing and researching. I have noticed that a lot of reviews on amazon some how get combined with different products from the same manufacturer which makes it even more confusing. Many of the less expensive units don’t even protect from surges but rather just tell you in real time if there are any issues with the wiring. I am currently not using anything but if I were to buy I am definitely going to buy one that will shut down when there is an issue and restore when power is back to normal!

There are several that will do what you want. The one I use, link below will protect from surges and also shut down for protection. The EMS type do the same but also control the low or high surges so that you maintain constant power, from what I've read. You can spend $100-$400 it depends on your needs. There's also a permanent EMS that can be mounted inside. It depends on your preference and needs. I am very happy with the one below.

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-I...015Y9A4HU?th=1

[benf]

Originally Posted by pokey

There are several that will do what you want. The one I use, link below will protect from surges and also shut down for protection. The EMS type do the same but also control the low or high surges so that you maintain constant power, from what I've read. You can spend $100-$400 it depends on your needs. There's also a permanent EMS that can be mounted inside. It depends on your preference and needs. I am very happy with the one below.



https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-I...015Y9A4HU?th=1

Thanks Pokey. This won’t protect against brown outs right? From what other campers have told me they are a major issue. I mostly camp at high end rv parks so I’m not terribly worried either way but figure if I do buy one I might as well install one like this for a few bucks more.

Hardwired EMS-LCHW30 RV Surge & Electrical Protector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004A32CGI..._d3C4Ab25KP6XR

[pokey]

Originally Posted by benf

Thanks Pokey. This won’t protect against brown outs right? From what other campers have told me they are a major issue. I mostly camp at high end rv parks so I’m not terribly worried either way but figure if I do buy one I might as well install one like this for a few bucks more.

Hardwired EMS-LCHW30 RV Surge & Electrical Protector https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004A32CGI..._d3C4Ab25KP6XR

I'm not too sure about brown outs but I don't think you can get any better (in my opinion) than the one that you posted.

[pokey]

Originally Posted by pokey

I'm not too sure about brown outs but I don't think you can get any better (in my opinion) than the one that you posted.

Good price also!

[benf]

Originally Posted by pokey

Good price also!

Thanks again for your help

[benf]

Originally Posted by js415

Any chance that one of you folks here have a PI portable 50amp protector that you do not use any more?

Our new trailer has 50amp service, and I have been using my PT30C with it, but I would like to go ahead and maybe find a nice used 50amp model.

I might even be able to trade my 30amp model with somebody if it worked out that way.

Thanks,

Jerry

Jerry. Let me know if you are interested in selling your 30 amp model and what you would want for it. Thanks!

[67L48]

I have nothing against Pokey and wish him well. I'm not trying to be argumentative or change his mind. However, he has conflated surge protectors with EMS devices to the point where there are incorrect statements floating around in this thread. I don't want this misinformation to confuse would-be readers. Again, nothing personal and I'm sure Pokey is a great guy.

Surge protectors will protect against a spike in power. This is a sudden and massive increase in voltage and current. For this reason, most surge protectors are rated in energy (e.g., Joules), voltage, and response time. When a local power transformer blows or a lightning strike hits, you need that device to be super fast to break the circuit and not allow that power to zap your devices.

That's it. That's the limit of protection you get from surge protectors. There are lots of debates about how well they can respond to lightning, due to lightning's capacity and speed. But, I will leave that alone. Surge protectors protect from sudden, significant spikes in power (voltage, current). If the surge gets through, it zaps your connected devices. It's catastrophic. Surge protection is insurance against the one-in-a-thousand event.

Within RV parks, in particular, there are lots of other power anomalies. Floating neutral, hot ground, and other "crossed wires" can exist. These can be the result of sloppy wiring, old fixtures, or some fault in the campground's electrical system. But these polarity issues can cause wear on the circuitry of your RV and its appliances, even if those devices have means to help overcome those anomalies.

There is also wider variation in supplied voltage than we might see in our homes/houses. US devices are built to operate on 120 VAC. The NEC has fairly tight tolerances on how to build/design electrical systems to provide a tight window of supplied potential. Devices are designed, typically, to operate at a wider range than the NEC specs.

What happens in low voltage and high voltage conditions?

We must remember the governing Ohm's Law and the interplay of potential, current, power, etc. In many devices, as the internal resistance remains constant, if there is an overvoltage condition, the current will increase (V = IR). The higher current flow will damage and cause wear on wiring, insulation, and other components. Not good.

But what about motors and devices that self-adjust to deliver constant power? Refrigerators, furnace motors, and other devices do this. Here, we need to consider that P = VI. So, as V goes down, the current must go up to deliver the same power, P. So, low voltage conditions will cause your motors to undergo higher current conditions and wear out faster. Devices with motors can be quite expensive.

These low and high voltage conditions are not surges. They are much more subtle and wouldn't trip a surge protector.

Surge Protectors, like the Progressive SSP-50X mentioned by Pokey, will effectively block the huge power surges from frying your RV appliances. They will do nothing to prevent low and high voltage power from slowly killing your RV appliances. That Progressive device (and other premium surge protectors like it) will also monitor for polarity (wiring) problems mentioned above -- they do, in fact, have some detection there. They will monitor for these things. However, they will NOT protect against them. If you're not there to see the warning lights and physically pull the plug, that faulty power will be passed along to your RV.

Similarly, surge protectors will not detect low or high voltage conditions mentioned above and will do nothing to protect against them.

The EMS does all of the above. It has integrated surge protection, so it has the catastrophic disaster protection. But, most importantly, it protects your RV from the more insidious low and high voltage conditions. And, even more importantly, it does this in real time, adapting to the dynamics of the supplied power.

Power might be great on Thursday afternoon. But, bySaturday, the park might be full of rigs running ACs on high. Voltage dips. Surge protector does nothing. EMS blocks the offending power from entering your RV and allows power back in when the voltage rises (or falls) to an appropriately safe level.

The rig next to you might cause an electrical fault at his pedestal and suddenly your ground goes hot. The surge protector might detect this and show a light, but it won't protect you. The EMS will detect this and block the offending power from entering your RV.

That's the difference between Surge Protection and EMS. More can be learned from a google search.

The Hughes Autoformer is completely different beast. It also has surge protection. But, it's not an EMS, either. It detects low voltage conditions, like an EMS, but doesn't do that for high voltage. It also won't block power in some of the other conditions (like hot neutral and polarity issues).

If your EMS detects low voltage or some other problem, it blocks power. You're safe, but you have no power.

If the Autoformer detects low voltage, it actually corrects it up to 10%. So, instead of going dark with an EMS, you get improved power and the lights stay on. Nice!

However, as mentioned, it doesn't help with the other conditions or electrical fault modes. High voltage? It passes that along. Floating neutral? It passes that along. It acts like a common surge protector in those conditions.

Also, what if you're in a particularly nasty place putting out 91 VAC? Autoformer bumps this to 100 VAC and passes it along, even though it's too low ... and EMS would have blocked even 100 VAC. Is it likely that you'd be in a condition that was so low that even the Autoformer correction wouldn't be enough? Probably not, but just illustrating that the Autoformer doesn't ever prevent power from being passed along ... it only detects low voltage, corrects by up to 10%, and passes that along. Cool device, but limited.

I haven't seen a single device that does the EMS stuff along with the Hughes Autoformer stuff. No one-box solution that I have seen.

Hope this helps.