2009 Georgetown 378TS Electrical Documentation

[mbtelguy]

The following is my recent correspondence with Forest River regarding the subject documentation. I would appreciate any comments for or against my position
Please note that previously requested slide & Jack documentation was provided.


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Schultz [mailto:fun4us@mts.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:59 PM
To: Michael Burns
Cc: Gary Schultz
Subject: Electrical System Documentation
Mike , the documents you sent arrived today.
Thank you
Mike since my last email I discovered that forest river provides
Cardinal owners with Electrical system drawings for both12vdc & 120vac
systems.
I have copies.
Mike could you please explain how I can obtain copies of similar
drawings for my Georgetown and at what cost.
Thanks Again for the documents.
Gary

Forest River Reply:
On 2010-02-03, at 8:54 AM, Michael Burns wrote:
Gary,
I'm glad to hear that you received the documents that I sent.
As far as the prints/drawings for your Georgetown, it is not a matter of
not wanting to send them to you or about any cost for them, it is simply
that there are none available for your Georgetown. I do not even have
any here in our office. Believe me if they were available, I would send
them to you at no cost whatsoever. At this point in time all that I can
offer you is the ability to contact me with any issues you may have. If
I don't have an answer for you I will dig until I do find the right
answer.
Mike

My follow up:
Mike, first I must emphasize that my comments are not direct at
you, and I understand that you are caught in the middle of this
issue.
Comments:
- The fact that Cardinal owners have been given electrical documentation,
suggests that Forest River does have the subject documentation some
where in their organization, am I right ?
- Surely Forest River is not building Georgetown Motorhomes without
documentation, are they ?
- When I take my Georgetown into a dealer for repair, I have the right to
expect the dealer to have all the necessary documentation to repair my
unit in an efficient manner. Otherwise the repair becomes a trail and
error method at my ($70 - $100 per hour ) expense.
am I right in assuming Forest River has not provided the dealers
with Forest River documentation ?
Mike, my previous motorhome was a Winnebago, and I was able to purchase
electrical documentation from Winnebago at a very reasonable cost.
By the way, I recovered the cost with one repair.
Mike, I suggest Forest River reconsider their refusal to provide documentation, and I request that Forest River provide me with answers to my above concerns/questions

Regards
Gary

[cfsoistman]

Good luck. FR documentation for their Georgetown Line leaves a lot to be desired. I inquired about documentation for the Artic Pak and what I received looked like the 10,000th copy of a poorly designed script at best. It looked kinda bleached out and crooked. One of these days I'll make up my own once I translate what is barely visible. Now the Owner's Manual is as generic as they come.
Based on some of the posts I've read here and what I've uncovered fixing a few odds and ends I wouldn't be surprise if there are not any electrical documentation. Mike is really a great guy to deal with. He's helped me out with everything I've ever needed. if ther's anything we can help you with from our experiences please post your questions. There's plenty of us that have explored into the wiring so far.

[mbtelguy]

cfsoistman

I agree with your comments regarding Mike. I sure he is trying to provide
the best possible service he can.

BTW I also agree with you on the Artic Pac documentation, I received
copy number 10,001.

Thanks for reply
Gary

[NWJeeper]

Outside of the fact that you used his name (Mike) so many times in the letter as to come across as accusatory and demeaning I don't see your experience as being out of the ordinary as it relates to others experience with the Georgetown line. Personally due to the complexity of the wiring in a large RV I don't expect them to be able to maintain a wiring diagram for each rig. I would expect that they would have a basic or "generic" diagram for them though. However I am beating my head against the wall right now with my bass boat for the same reason, I need a schematic of the wiring (which is much much simpler than an RV) but they aren't available.

I have also heard that the different divisions within Forest River are run like separate companies. Therefore just because there is a diagram available for a trailer doesn't mean they do it for the Georgetowns, they are for all intents and purposes, separate companies. This also translates to how each division deals with their customers on warranty issues as well. We have had good dealings with FR on our very few issues with our rig whereas others have had abysmal dealings with them for their trailers. Different divisions of the parent company.

Personally I can do with out all the wiring and plumbing diagrams and figure it out myself for the 40K less I paid for my rig vs the Winnebago.

[mbtelguy]

nwjeeper

First, although I appreciate your response, you no doubt did not expect
me to agree with you.

In my very first sentence I told Mike that my comments were not direct at him
and every comment I made identified Forest River. However, in my opinion Forest River has put the only Employee trying to satisfy customer’s requests for documentation/service , in a extremely difficult position.

I agree with your comment that my experience is no different than other Georgetown
owners. However our you suggesting that because others have tried to obtain documentation I should not?

Forest River, as you suggested must have some generic Georgetown documentation (no doubt used on the production line) that in my opinion could very easily be provided to owners and at the same time generate some revenue to offset costs. Because the wiring is complex I’m sure Forest River would not what the production staff to wing it.

You also suggested that because Forest River has many divisions, we should not
necessarily expect Georgetown documentation. The interesting thing is that the Cardinal documentation I have, was produce by the Forest River Motorized Division. So much for separation.

In regards to the $40K difference between Winnebago and Georgetown, I could use the same logic in respect to Cardinal versus Georgetown. Since we paid more for our RVs
you would expect Forest River to provide Georgetown documentation and not Cardinal.

nwjeeper, I want to emphasize that, with exception of the documentation issue, my experience to date with both the local dealer and Mike has been nothing but positive.

Again I do appreciate your comments, and I wish more owners would provide
their views.

[NWJeeper]

Originally Posted by mbtelguy

nwjeeper


I agree with your comment that my experience is no different than other Georgetown
owners. However our you suggesting that because others have tried to obtain documentation I should not?

By all means, no. Keep trying but just don't be surprised when they say they dont have them. I think ya got a real Don Quixote thing goin' on there but more power to ya, if you get anywhere let us know.

I cannot begin to explain or fathom why manufacturers don't provide wiring diagrams. Look at my boat for instance. With the exception of yachts which more resemble RVs in their complexity, the average boat, be it ski, pleasure, bass or other have very similar wiring that isn't all that hard to understand. You would think it would be very simple for them to provide at least a list of what color wire does what.

I would venture a guess that statistically speaking, guys like you an me are not all that common in that we aren't afraid of doing our own wiring and electrical troubleshooting. Heck there are guys out there that can't even change their own light bulbs which is pathetic and the subject of a different discussion but I digress.

As for why the trailers get schematics and we don't, still can't tell ya other than there are a lot of companies (and the government) that have left hands that don't talk to the right. Why can't I take my Georgetown to a FR dealer that only sells FR trailers for work on my awning? I don't know but they have all told me, "we don't work on the motorhomes" IT'S A DANG AWNING! They're the same no matter what they are attached to!

Most of it doesn't make any sense to me and I don't have the answers. Keep trying all you want but I think you will be just banging your head against the wall.

[ncvet]

I'm glad you are following up on this issue. I currently have an electrical problem and need a diagram. There is no way in heck that FR is building units without specs.
I wonder if this could be sent to the Good Sam magazine for follow-up?

[mbtelguy]

NCVET

Sorry to hear you are having problems. I did, after writing to Peter J. Liegl
President Forest River Inc. receive a call from the FR Electrical Department.

Shortly afterwards I received some electrical drawings. Although I do not think they sent me all they have, the ones I did receive are use full.


What problems are you having ? maybe one of the drawings I have will help.

Gary