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Old 10-18-2012, 12:16 PM   #1
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DEF info

I was reading up on DEF fluid today and wondered if some of you folks have? What I saw was that DEF has a shelf life of about 2 years, and that it will freeze at about 12*F. The storage tanks in are suppose to expand to allow for the freezing expandition of the fluld to 7%. Any one else know any thing about DEF that we should maybe pass on to others? I started wondering about the freezing during storage of the MH sometimes our temps get well below 12*F during the winter for long periods of time.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:45 PM   #2
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That about sums it up. If you are driving, the tank is to have a heater installed to keep it liquid. There is no harm to the fluid when it freezes and thaws.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:45 PM   #3
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Here is a link to more info about def.
DEF Overview - discover Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF)
I don't know much about when you store a vehicle with DEF and it freezing. I drive my truck year round. Hope this helps.
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Old 10-18-2012, 12:55 PM   #4
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I have a box in the back of my truck - it's BlueDEF which is the only brand I've seen and used - get at Walmart and Advanced Auto. I'll check the label to see where it freezes.

Last winter had some fairly cold days - around 15F - never had a problem starting up and driving away. I would think if the DEF tank was frozen solid, the truck would not start, or at least alarm until it heated up.

From the document in the link -

"Aside from helping the environment the biggest benefit of SCR for vehicle owners is the fuel saving which the technology provides. Because SCR deals with emissions in the exhaust pipe, engineers are able to tune the engine to provide more torque and reduce fuel consumption.

For example, Detroit Diesel's BlueTec technology boasts up to 5% better fuel economy and Cummins has said its EPA 2010 technology delivers a 5-7% fuel efficiency saving compared to EPA 2007. However, SCR systems require a regular top-up of DEF."

Did not realize that mpg and torque are increased by the SCR system. Makes me scratch my head as to why some guys are talking about modding their trucks to do away with it.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
I have a box in the back of my truck - it's BlueDEF which is the only brand I've seen and used - get at Walmart and Advanced Auto. I'll check the label to see where it freezes.

Last winter had some fairly cold days - around 15F - never had a problem starting up and driving away. I would think if the DEF tank was frozen solid, the truck would not start, or at least alarm until it heated up.

From the document in the link -

"Aside from helping the environment the biggest benefit of SCR for vehicle owners is the fuel saving which the technology provides. Because SCR deals with emissions in the exhaust pipe, engineers are able to tune the engine to provide more torque and reduce fuel consumption.

For example, Detroit Diesel's BlueTec technology boasts up to 5% better fuel economy and Cummins has said its EPA 2010 technology delivers a 5-7% fuel efficiency saving compared to EPA 2007. However, SCR systems require a regular top-up of DEF."

Did not realize that mpg and torque are increased by the SCR system. Makes me scratch my head as to why some guys are talking about modding their trucks to do away with it.
Some may think if the government mandates it then it must be worthless and power robbing.

Remember when catalytic converters came out!
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post
Did not realize that mpg and torque are increased by the SCR system. Makes me scratch my head as to why some guys are talking about modding their trucks to do away with it.
the reason is, that while the def system alows for better mpg and torque it has to do with egr and the actual TUNING of the vehicle....the def in and of itself does not provide a DIRECT power benefit, but allows the engineers to build in more power in stock form while still adhering to epa mandates.....so you have a cleaner truck that gets better hp and torque in STOCK form when compared to non urea based systems that pump a lot of exahust back into the motor for emissions reasons....

there is still a considerable ammount of additional "aftermarket" tuning that can yield even better performance, and take away the percieved "hassle" of adding def....

with that said, mine is tuned AND i still have the def, dpf, and egr intact...
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:41 PM   #7
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Hmmm I keep hearing the new pickups with DEF get worse mileage than the older ones that didn't run def. When the new trucks go into regen to burn off the soot in the DPF, they use extra diesel fuel. The regen cycles is what kills fuel mileage. I'm a Ford guy and maybe they figured it out on the brand new 6.7L engines but the 6.4 version supposedly gets poor mpg compared to a non DEF 6.0 engine.

How Dodge and their Cummins diesels pass emmissions without running DPF/DEF is beyone me. Ford and Chevy have to do it. Ya I know, Cummins is better. LOL! Before you know it, Chevy will have CAT engines. Ford got burned by International so no way are they going to change for awhile.
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Old 10-18-2012, 10:50 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by joelek
Hmmm I keep hearing the new pickups with DEF get worse mileage than the older ones that didn't run def. When the new trucks go into regen to burn off the soot in the DPF, they use extra diesel fuel. The regen cycles is what kills fuel mileage. I'm a Ford guy and maybe they figured it out on the brand new 6.7L engines but the 6.4 version supposedly gets poor mpg compared to a non DEF 6.0 engine.

How Dodge and their Cummins diesels pass emmissions without running DPF/DEF is beyone me. Ford and Chevy have to do it. Ya I know, Cummins is better. LOL! Before you know it, Chevy will have CAT engines. Ford got burned by International so no way are they going to change for awhile.
Isn't Ford's new engine a twin Turbo?
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:03 PM   #9
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New diesel is a single sequential turbo...variable vane....

And the def has nothing to do with the regen process....that is Regen is to clean the soot out of the dpf...and it does make mileage drop but only for 8-10 min by dumping raw diesel into the exhaust

The real old trucks don't have a dpf or def..6.0 was privy to higher sulfur fuel and no dpf or def....hence better mileage and lots of black puffing
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Isn't Ford's new engine a twin Turbo?
No, it uses a single sequential turbo charger. Basically it's a single turbo with dual turbo characteristics.
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