Difference Between Receivers

[rockwood06]

mtnguy, thanks for the web site and your explanation in your last post. The GM part number for the receiver is #15824090, It dose state for weight destribution 10,500 lbs for the trailer and 1,100 for the tongue weight. Depending on where one reads the spec's the technical terminology changes and gets my panties in a bunch. So, the 600 lbs rating is the rating with the camper hooked up to the truck and hitch and nothing else, this is now called DEAD weight, this puts me over by 60 lbs not a big deal, once the weight destribution system is hooked up, the tongue capacity is now increased to the max of the rated receiver, am I thinking in the right direction? Now I made a phone call to my local RV dealer and gave him the numbers and he said all is fine, but he did ask me a few more question about the truck and that is the tires, he recommended changing them out and install LT's. This was suggested by other Forum members before which will happen soon. I still have an appointment with the car dealer to day to do the retro fit and I am going to keep the appointment just to see if the 3/4 ton class "4" receiver will work. The differents between the class "3" and the class "4" is that the class "3" is a fixed 2" receiver, the class "4" receiver is 2 1/2" with a removable adapter that reduces the receiver to 2", this now becomes a double walled receiver this is where the tongue rating is double from the class "3". The tube platform is still 3" in dia. With the new design of the class "4" receivers, once the adapter is installed one can not see the double wall because there is a flange around the adapter that covers the face of the receiver. The older style double wall is welded in and can not be removed and is exposed. This now answers my question in my first posting with the pic " Whats The Differents Between The Two Receivers" I'll see how it go's to day.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by rockwood06

mtnguy, thanks for the web site and your explanation in your last post. The GM part number for the receiver is #15824090, It dose state for weight destribution 10,500 lbs for the trailer and 1,100 for the tongue weight. Depending on where one reads the spec's the technical terminology changes and gets my panties in a bunch. So, the 600 lbs rating is the rating with the camper hooked up to the truck and hitch and nothing else, this is now called DEAD weight, this puts me over by 60 lbs not a big deal, once the weight destribution system is hooked up, the tongue capacity is now increased to the max of the rated receiver, am I thinking in the right direction?

That is my understanding. I don't know whether the 660 lbs. on your hitch would be terribly bad before you hitch up your WDH or not. I imagine that Chevy just doesn't want you going down the road with over a 600 lb. tongue bouncing up and down back there. But if you hitch the trailer up, and install the WHD before you put any of the dead weight on the hitch would probably be the best option.

Originally Posted by rockwood06

Now I made a phone call to my local RV dealer and gave him the numbers and he said all is fine, but he did ask me a few more question about the truck and that is the tires, he recommended changing them out and install LT's. This was suggested by other Forum members before which will happen soon.

I have those crappy P rated tires on my truck also....I would rather have LTs, but those 17" tires cost a bundle. My P235/75R17s are rated @ 2205 lbs. each, which is over my rear axle GAWR of 3850 anyway. But with the WDH hooked up and my truck loaded for for bear, my rear axle weight should not be over 3400 lbs, so I have a 1000 lb. margin of error for those tires. My trailer tracks great, so the side softer sidewalls don't seem to be a problem...I do run them at maximum inflation all of the time. I hope to replace with LTs when these tires wear out.

Originally Posted by rockwood06

I still have an appointment with the car dealer to day to do the retro fit and I am going to keep the appointment just to see if the 3/4 ton class "4" receiver will work. The differents between the class "3" and the class "4" is that the class "3" is a fixed 2" receiver, the class "4" receiver is 2 1/2" with a removable adapter that reduces the receiver to 2", this now becomes a double walled receiver this is where the tongue rating is double from the class "3". The tube platform is still 3" in dia. With the new design of the class "4" receivers, once the adapter is installed one can not see the double wall because there is a flange around the adapter that covers the face of the receiver. The older style double wall is welded in and can not be removed and is exposed. This now answers my question in my first posting with the pic " Whats The Differents Between The Two Receivers" I'll see how it go's to day.

My F150 receiver looks like the 1 in your 2nd picture, and the aftermarket receiver that I have on my Jeep looks like your 1st picture. The old 1s do look substantially beefier. I am anxious to hear how it goes today.

Chap

[rockwood06]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

That is my understanding. I don't know whether the 660 lbs. on your hitch would be terribly bad before you hitch up your WDH or not. I imagine that Chevy just doesn't want you going down the road with over a 600 lb. tongue bouncing up and down back there. But if you hitch the trailer up, and install the WHD before you put any of the dead weight on the hitch would probably be the best option.

I think your understanding is correct above about towing in the dead weight mode, but as far as hooking up WDH first, I don't think It can be done. You have to install the hitch into the receiver and then hook up the TT and until the spring bars are set and applied there is no weight distribution. According to the 2008 brochure It states that If you are going to tow a trailer over 5,000 lbs you must use a WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION AND SWAY CONTROL HITCH SYSTEM. So what I get out of this is that the receiver will carry a trailer weight and the tongue weight as long as they are under the dead weight limits and no weight distribution is needed. I guess I am calling the tongue weight @ 600 lbs and the trailer weight @ 5,000 lbs dead weight. I am sure that everyone sets there camper on the hitch first then install the spring bars, It's all dead weight at first.




I have those crappy P rated tires on my truck also....I would rather have LTs, but those 17" tires cost a bundle. My P235/75R17s are rated @ 2205 lbs. each, which is over my rear axle GAWR of 3850 anyway. But with the WDH hooked up and my truck loaded for for bear, my rear axle weight should not be over 3400 lbs, so I have a 1000 lb. margin of error for those tires. My trailer tracks great, so the side softer sidewalls don't seem to be a problem...I do run them at maximum inflation all of the time. I hope to replace with LTs when these tires wear out.

Tires....another issue. The truck came with "Good Year Wrangler AT/S P265/R70 17's," a good looking tire but get this the are only 4 ply tires as Bama pointed out to me in and earlier post. I can see it now towing with these tires with and the side walls flexing, with a lack of steering control maybe tires blowing out and sway. To replace these tire with the same type but in a 6 ply it would cost $265.00 each and I would need to replace all 5 tires, that's not going to happen. While at the dealer working out the receiver issue the tires were mentioned, they recommended Brigstone 695 tires, they are 10 ply at a price of $213.00 each installed a total of $1081.00 for all 5. I am thinking about It.


My F150 receiver looks like the 1 in your 2nd picture, and the aftermarket receiver that I have on my Jeep looks like your 1st picture. The old 1s do look substantially beefier. I am anxious to hear how it goes today.

Chap

While at the in the Service department at the Dealers, there were 4 Mechanics the Shop Supervisor and 2 parts Counter Men from the parts department and the New Car Sales Manager. It looked like a pre tailgating party for the Raven's WIN on Sunday at the rear of my truck, I wish I had a camera. After calculation were taken measurements were made and lining everything up the 3/4 ton receiver WILL NOT WORK It can not be up graded from GM or any after market supplier, It is what It Is. Mean while I was talking to the Shop Supervisor and he said he has the same set up as I do, well come to find out he tows a TT as well and he also had the same concerns as I do and many others so I wasn't an odd ball. He confirmed along with the other 4 Mechanics that I should not have any problems with this receiver. So between the Car Dealer and the RV dealer, and the Members on this Forum I guess I am good to go. Just change the tries.

[MtnGuy]

Well rockwood06, this way you won't have to "depimp" your current ride like you said you might have to do earlier in this thread, and you will save a whole bunch of money.

Have you thought about keeping your current tires and see how they do towing your rig after you get the WDH retuned to your new truck?? That might save you another $1000 bucks or so until those puppies wear out. Of course, if you can find someone to buy the current truck tires, then that might be the better option.

I have been working of and on since I got my trailer in September to fine tune the WDH. The dealer didn't even have it close. I have already taken my combo to the local quarry scales 2 times with different setups, and I am finally getting close with the ball mount tilt and height, so hopefully this next trip across the scales will be my last for awhile.

You mentioned that your new truck hitch has more play than the old one. My hitch setup is real sloppy also, and I am in the process of making some shims to get that corrected. What better thing to do when the temperature is in the low 20s outside.

[rockwood06]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

Well rockwood06, this way you won't have to "depimp" your current ride like you said you might have to do earlier in this thread, and you will save a whole bunch of money.

Have you thought about keeping your current tires and see how they do towing your rig after you get the WDH retuned to your new truck?? That might save you another $1000 bucks or so until those puppies wear out. Of course, if you can find someone to buy the current truck tires, then that might be the better option.

I have been working of and on since I got my trailer in September to fine tune the WDH. The dealer didn't even have it close. I have already taken my combo to the local quarry scales 2 times with different setups, and I am finally getting close with the ball mount tilt and height, so hopefully this next trip across the scales will be my last for awhile.

You mentioned that your new truck hitch has more play than the old one. My hitch setup is real sloppy also, and I am in the process of making some shims to get that corrected. What better thing to do when the temperature is in the low 20s outside.

As far as the tires that are on it now, I what to change them as soon as possible. I don't think it is safe towing with passenger tires on a truck that weighs 7,000 lbs and pulling a trailer that weighs 3 1/2 tons fully loaded. There are too many people out there that drive cars that have no respect for those of us that drive a small semi when we are headed to a campground. I am real funny when it comes to safety issues with towing, I don't what to jeopardize my health and well being, yours and your family and everyone else that is around me when I am on the road. I will spend the money to make it right. Just last week I posted the 5 carlisle tires on Craigs list that came off of my camper this past Spring, they were replaced with Good Year. I had 3 calls on them and they were gone in 2 days. So the Good Year tires that are on the truck now will end up on Craigs list.

Good Luck with your WDH set up, I am sure you like this to be the last time. My camper has to go into the dealers for fridg recall, and I know I have to have the WDH adjusted for the new truck, so I think I am going to let them take care of It. I am going to tow the camper up with the Suburban and then came back home to get the new truck so they can check the hitch and make the adjustments, the Dealer is about 35 mins away. I will not be towing with the new truck until May, so I should have time to correct anything that needs it.

Yes, the receiver on the new truck has some slop when the hitch is installed, but in the receiver to the Suburban there is very little movement. When I spoke to an installer at Truckin America, I ask him about slop and he said that's how there are now, with the new style of receivers. He said the only way to reduce slop is to do what you are doing, shim, shim, shim. By the way, I fell your pain working out side in 20 degree temps while playing with steel, can be a bit chilling. Are you in the mood for a cold one?

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by rockwood06

As far as the tires that are on it now, I what to change them as soon as possible. I don't think it is safe towing with passenger tires on a truck that weighs 7,000 lbs and pulling a trailer that weighs 3 1/2 tons fully loaded. There are too many people out there that drive cars that have no respect for those of us that drive a small semi when we are headed to a campground. I am real funny when it comes to safety issues with towing, I don't what to jeopardize my health and well being, yours and your family and everyone else that is around me when I am on the road. I will spend the money to make it right.

Sounds like you are doing the safest thing possible there. BTW, I balanced all of my trailer tires and put metal valve stems in so that I can run TPMS sensors on the wheels without bending the rubber stems due to centrifugal force at speed, and 2 balancing shops said it my spare was so far out of round that it won't balance correctly. 1 of the next chores of mine is get that puppy replaced, hopefully through warranty.

Originally Posted by rockwood06

Good Luck with your WDH set up, I am sure you like this to be the last time. My camper has to go into the dealers for fridg recall, and I know I have to have the WDH adjusted for the new truck, so I think I am going to let them take care of It. I am going to tow the camper up with the Suburban and then came back home to get the new truck so they can check the hitch and make the adjustments, the Dealer is about 35 mins away. I will not be towing with the new truck until May, so I should have time to correct anything that needs it.

Just be careful of the dealer setup....the dealers are notorious for not taking their time to set things up correctly. My dealer had the tongue way low, so I had to remedy that the 1st thing. Out of the 640 lb. empty tongue weight on my trailer, the front axle of my truck was still 240 lbs. lite, there was 840 lbs. added to my rear axle, and they only had added 40 lbs. on the trailer axles....totally unacceptable. I ended up tilting the ballmount platform back 3 more notches than what the dealer had set up to get it close, and probably will do 1 more notch to get it exactly tuned in.

I hope your dealer is better at the WDH system then mine was.

Originally Posted by rockwood06

Yes, the receiver on the new truck has some slop when the hitch is installed, but in the receiver to the Suburban there is very little movement. When I spoke to an installer at Truckin America, I ask him about slop and he said that's how there are now, with the new style of receivers. He said the only way to reduce slop is to do what you are doing, shim, shim, shim. By the way, I fell your pain working out side in 20 degree temps while playing with steel, can be a bit chilling. Are you in the mood for a cold one?

I did most of my work indoors yesterday with an occasional trip outside, and there was a suffient amount of beverages consumed.

[rockwood06]

Originally Posted by mtnguy

Sounds like you are doing the safest thing possible there. BTW, I balanced all of my trailer tires and put metal valve stems in so that I can run TPMS sensors on the wheels without bending the rubber stems due to centrifugal force at speed, and 2 balancing shops said it my spare was so far out of round that it won't balance correctly. 1 of the next chores of mine is get that puppy replaced, hopefully through warranty.

When I had the tires changed out on the camper, I had all 5 balanced, and man what a difference. People just don't til they make the change. The new tires are rated for 65 psi, I don't know if they are concedered as a high pressure tire, I know that the 10 ply tires are @ 80 psi and they have to have high pressure valve stems in stalled.



Just be careful of the dealer setup....the dealers are notorious for not taking their time to set things up correctly. My dealer had the tongue way low, so I had to remedy that the 1st thing. Out of the 640 lb. empty tongue weight on my trailer, the front axle of my truck was still 240 lbs. lite, there was 840 lbs. added to my rear axle, and they only had added 40 lbs. on the trailer axles....totally unacceptable. I ended up tilting the ballmount platform back 3 more notches than what the dealer had set up to get it close, and probably will do 1 more notch to get it exactly tuned in.

I hope your dealer is better at the WDH system then mine was.


The dealer that I use I have been dealing with for the past 9 years. The first time was in 2000 they set up my first camper and I did not have any problems at all, but when I bought the last one which is the one I have now the hitch work was below standards. When we took the camper out for the first time we were on interstate 76 the PA trunpike, the speed limit is 65 mph as soon as I hit 51 mph the camper started to sway and I was out of control I was taking both lanes and the right shoulder nearly hitting the guardrail, thank GOD no one was around me. When I gained control I pull off of the side of the road to inspect everything and saw nothing wrong so I drove no faster then 45 mph. Once I got to where I was going and parked into a site I had 3 cold ones before I could unhitch and I am not going to mention the condition of my underwear. About an hour went by after setting up I had a flat tire on the left rear of my Suburban, well from all that sway it damaged the bead on a brand new 10 ply tire. After that weekend I toke the camper right back to the Dealers to check things out, Well the the camper was hitch too low the The equipment for the WDH was out of square and the tilt of the ball was wrong, It was a total mess. Now if this was to happen with this new truck with 4 ply tires on it, I am sure I would not be on this Forum today. So in my mine safety comes first and if I can not afford it then I need to stay off the road.




I did most of my work indoors yesterday with an occasional trip outside, and there was a suffient amount of beverages consumed.

That's one way to stay kinda warm!

[Bduece]

As far as using shims for your hitch. I've been using zip ties. They come in muliple lenghts withs and thicknesses. They do crush, but I use a new set everytime I tow.

[rockwood06]

Zip ties, white or black?

[Bduece]

I just see zip ties!!!! Doesn't matter what color they are.

[rafcar]

My main concern with GM's factory hitch was all the bouncing the truck and trailer do while traveling. I never felt safe, so I put a true class V receiver under the truck, and now we all fell much safer. This is specially important with a heavy tonge weigth like our front kitchen model TT. I went with a Putnam XDR, but there are others also.

[rockwood06]

Originally Posted by rafcar

My main concern with GM's factory hitch was all the bouncing the truck and trailer do while traveling. I never felt safe, so I put a true class V receiver under the truck, and now we all fell much safer. This is specially important with a heavy tonge weigth like our front kitchen model TT. I went with a Putnam XDR, but there are others also.

Do you fell a difference between the two or is it a mine set knowing you have something stronger?

[rafcar]

I honestly can't say I feel a difference when driving, but I can tell you that I noticed a slight difference in weight distribution, meaning, the front of the truck comes down some know, and before I could never get that effect no matter what I did. So I think the stock receiver was flexing a bit. Anyway, I fell a lot safer now, and I'm not as worried about road conditions as I was before.

[rockwood06]

Originally Posted by rafcar

I honestly can't say I feel a difference when driving, but I can tell you that I noticed a slight difference in weight distribution, meaning, the front of the truck comes down some know, and before I could never get that effect no matter what I did. So I think the stock receiver was flexing a bit. Anyway, I fell a lot safer now, and I'm not as worried about road conditions as I was before.

I am glad you are more relaxed with your change out. My camper is going to the dealers this Friday for the refridge recall and I am going to tow the camper home with the new truck just the way it is set up from GM to see how it handles. The camper was suppose to go in last Friday but it was pack in ice due to the weather, so hopefully I don't have to cancel again this Friday.

[rafcar]

Hey rockwood06, after I posted my response about pulling the trailer with the new receiver, I started thinking about it, and I remember telling my wife that the front of the truck was not bouncing like it did with the factory receiver. So basically, it felt like the whole truck would move as one unit instead of having a rocking kind of feeling. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that it did make a difference in the way the truck felt after all.

[rockwood06]

Originally Posted by rafter

Hey rockwood06, after I posted my response about pulling the trailer with the new receiver, I started thinking about it, and I remember telling my wife that the front of the truck was not bouncing like it did with the factory receiver. So basically, it felt like the whole truck would move as one unit instead of having a rocking kind of feeling. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that it did make a difference in the way the truck felt after all.

Thanks for the info, this will give me something to compare to on Friday, other then my 97 3/4 ton Suburban and if there are any other members on the Forum that have used the newer style receivers and have noticed other difference that I need to pay attention to then please post them. I mention before, the tires on the truck are P 265/70 R17 (4 ply) that came as standard equipment and will be changed out to (10 ply) at a later date be for camping season starts. I know that will make a big difference in ti self.

[rockwood06]

I made it to the Dealers to day for the Fridge recall and to get the hitch work changed over from the 97 Suburban to the new 2008 Silverado.
The first pic is the Surburban hooked up to the Rockwood, the second pic is the hitch work for the exsisting set up on the Suburban.
The third pic shows the Rockwood hooked up to the new 2008 Silverado, the fourth pic shows the new set up and the adjustments that had to be made to make the change.
Well, what a differance towing makes between the two trucks. The new truck tows great, but there is something dfferent when I back up, it must be the wheel base, it's something I have to adjust to. I kept an eye on the reciever when the hitch and spring bars were attached at the Dealers and then after I drove home and park the camper and disconnected. There was no flex in the receiver at all. The truck seem to handle nice and stiff and will not let the trailer do anything on It's own. The only thing I noticed at 60 mph is that the tires had some flex in the side walls but was not too bad for 4 ply tires, 10 ply are coming soon. It seems now that the GM class 3-4 receiver design change is as solid as a ROCK at this time and is working well on the VortecMax Heavy duty 1/2 Ton. Time will tell. I would like thank everyone for there input and reserch, I had a few members PM me about different manufactures and there replacement receivers for my truck, it was extra work on there part to help me and I do appreciate it.

[Bama Rambler]

Good looking with the new setup. Maybe it's just an optical illusion but looks like you need a bit more tilt in the hitch head so you can get another link or so under tension. That'll affect how it backs up as well.

[rockwood06]

That's the first thing I questioned, on the old set up it had a 3 degree tilt towards the camper, but the new set up looks like it is straight up. The way it was explained to me is that in order to make the hitch ball level to match the level point of the camper the hitch can be adjusted with no more then a 3 degree tilt to achieve the proper height from the ground to the top of the hitch ball and this should be at the level point of the camper. I guess this is called tweaking the final adjustment. If you can't set the hitch at the perfect height then the tilt comes in, but they say no more then 3 Degrees. Bama, I didn't think about the tilt effecting the reverse mode, thanks for the heads up.

[Bama Rambler]

I think there's some misinformation here. The way I understand it, the tilt isn't used to level the RV it's used to get enough tension on the bars to distribute the weight correctly. I'd suggest you go over to RV.Net Towing and read the Travel Trailer Hitch Set-up Procedure. It's the best and most comprehensive info I've ever seen about the setting up of the Reese hitch. I read the entire thing and I don't even own a Reese.