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08-14-2011, 01:42 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,283
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Nitrogen in tires myth
I finally had a chance to prove the myth that pure nitrogen in tires is a big deal. I had to fix one of the tires on my new Dodge Ram, and just filled it with regular air. We were on a long distance trip, so the tires heated up pretty good, and the pressure in the tires with pure nitrogen went up double what the one with regular air did. So I don't see much advantage to that!
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08-14-2011, 02:47 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 92
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I agree totally. Just a ruse to get one to go to back to the dealership.
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Stephen Georgy
2011 Lacrosse 318BHS
2006 F-350
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[SIGPIC]
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08-14-2011, 02:53 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island (Nassau County), NY
Posts: 4,352
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The air we breathe is about 78% nitrogen so I don't see much advantage in paying a premium for 22% additional nitrogen.
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Tom and Margaret
2014 Berkshire 390bh-60
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08-14-2011, 02:53 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Picton
Posts: 714
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It reminds me...
I still have an unopened can of Expo 67 Air. (that was in Montreal in 1967)
Paid $5 back in the day, probably worth a lot more today.
Have not used/sniffed it yet.
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Denis & Diane
* Happy Campers *
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08-14-2011, 02:54 PM
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#5
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Gary and Pam
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 40
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My dealer doesn't even have it there. They told me I'd need to go to a place 10 miles away.
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Gary & Pam
2010 Sandpiper 355QBQ
2010 F350 CC LB KR 4X4
Nights camped 2010-20 2011-26 2012-22
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08-14-2011, 03:06 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 386
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WOW, a scientific method of proof!
Jack
__________________
2018 Flagstaff 832IKBS Travel Trailer.
2015 Silverado High Country.
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08-14-2011, 05:14 PM
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#7
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Lottery Non-Winner
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 437
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Here's a thought...
tmmar speaks the truth: the air we breath IS ~78% nitrogen. One of the supposed "benefits" of nitrogen in your tires is that it is a bigger molecule and won't leach out like the oxygen molecule. If oxygen is leaving the tire, that means the percentage of nitrogen remaining inside the tire goes up. Let us say that the gas remaining in your sad tire is now 85% nitrogen (because some oxygen has left). Unless you use 100% oxygen to replace what was lost, you won't get back down to 78% nitrogen. Think of the tire as if it were a basket. Instead of nitrogen and oxygen, we will fill it with 78% golf balls and 22% sand. Give it a shake and a jiggle. The sand (oxygen) will leach out. Top it back off with the 78/22 mixture and you still can not get the entirety of the contents back to a 78/22 mix. You will have a high golf ball to sand ratio from then on. Or should I say you'll have a high nitrogen to oxygen ratio. Essentially, if your tires leach, you probably already have a higher than 78/22 ratio of nitrogen/oxygen inside your tires. And you didn't have to pay for that awesome technological advantage. All you had to do was wait for your tires to weep out some air.
__________________
2011 Georgetown 337
2009 HD FLHTCU
2007 HD FXSTC
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08-14-2011, 05:47 PM
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#8
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 30
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Is it not a benefit to use nitrogen b/c it has no moisture? If you have steel wheels this could be important.
Dan
__________________
Me, Her, Boy(8), Girl(7), Baby Girl(1.5) and Dog
06 Chevy 2500 4x4 crewcab SB Duramax/Allison
08 Flagstaff 831BHSS w/ Reese Dual Cam
"Submarines once, submarines twice..."
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08-14-2011, 06:03 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canandaigua,New York (The heart of the Finger Lakes)
Posts: 487
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aaaaaaaaaaaaa We have used nitrogen in our Racing car tires for years..... and trust me the heat or cold doesn't effect the pressure settings as it does compressed air.....and we were making 1/2 lbs. changes in tire pressure to change the handling of the race car. It was not possible to do that with just compressed air !! So if you truly have Nitrogen air in your tires they will NOT increase double the original pressures. Race teams use nitrogen just for the reason....Heat doesn't effect it as much !
Note: Do you need nitrogen in a trailer tire....NO. Its not worth the cost for the use !
__________________
David & Annamarie & 2-Pugs (Fatty and Harley)
2011 Rockwood Windjammer 3065
2011 Ford F-250 6.2- V8
2011 Hensley Arrow "NO-SWAY" Hitch
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08-14-2011, 06:08 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovair
Here's a thought...
tmmar speaks the truth: the air we breath IS ~78% nitrogen. One of the supposed "benefits" of nitrogen in your tires is that it is a bigger molecule and won't leach out like the oxygen molecule. If oxygen is leaving the tire, that means the percentage of nitrogen remaining inside the tire goes up. Let us say that the gas remaining in your sad tire is now 85% nitrogen (because some oxygen has left). Unless you use 100% oxygen to replace what was lost, you won't get back down to 78% nitrogen. Think of the tire as if it were a basket. Instead of nitrogen and oxygen, we will fill it with 78% golf balls and 22% sand. Give it a shake and a jiggle. The sand (oxygen) will leach out. Top it back off with the 78/22 mixture and you still can not get the entirety of the contents back to a 78/22 mix. You will have a high golf ball to sand ratio from then on. Or should I say you'll have a high nitrogen to oxygen ratio. Essentially, if your tires leach, you probably already have a higher than 78/22 ratio of nitrogen/oxygen inside your tires. And you didn't have to pay for that awesome technological advantage. All you had to do was wait for your tires to weep out some air.
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I'm going to fill my tires with golf balls and sand and that will solve all my problems
__________________
Nigel & Bev
Brit Driver & Canadian Naviguesser
We summer in Cowichan Valley BC Canada & winter in Monchique Portugal great camping in both!
2011 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8280ws 2011 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Diesel 2000 Honda S2000
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08-14-2011, 06:20 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beaver, PA
Posts: 911
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Sounds like a job for the Mythbusters!
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Chris, Wills (16) Evie (13) & Toby our collie (6)
2011 Grey Wolf 28BH
2013 Chevy K1500 Crew w/ Reese StraitLine Dual Cam
Nights camped 2011: 11 2012: 18 2013: 12 2014: 12 2015: 13 2016: 56 2017: 8+
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08-14-2011, 06:33 PM
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#12
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Lottery Non-Winner
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigels
I'm going to fill my tires with golf balls and sand and that will solve all my problems
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You just invented a "budget run flat" tire. Errrrr good luck with that.
__________________
2011 Georgetown 337
2009 HD FLHTCU
2007 HD FXSTC
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08-14-2011, 07:41 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Where We Hook Up
Posts: 220
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I love this forum because it yields so many great ideas. Looking at the periodic table, I'm thinking I'll inflate my tires with Hydrogen, and offset some of the load I'm carrying.
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2017 Cedar Creek 38CK Hathaway Edition
2015 Ford F-350 6.7 CC 4x4
B&W RVK3300
Full-timing since 5/2/2016. Roam Sweet Home.
FROG Int'l Rallies: 2012-2017
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08-14-2011, 07:57 PM
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#14
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RVer In The Making
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 15
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We used nitrogen on our Air Force aircraft all the time. It helped maintain the pressure and temp. I have also used it while racing in the SCCA and found the same results.
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08-14-2011, 08:28 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 643
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrT
I love this forum because it yields so many great ideas. Looking at the periodic table, I'm thinking I'll inflate my tires with Hydrogen, and offset some of the load I'm carrying.
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No way....... remember the Hindenberg disaster you don't want that to happen at 70mph with your Chinese trailer tires, far too dangerous...........Helium is the way to go!
Failing that N2O Nitrous Oxide if you want a good laugh or bit more Horse Power in your tires
__________________
Nigel & Bev
Brit Driver & Canadian Naviguesser
We summer in Cowichan Valley BC Canada & winter in Monchique Portugal great camping in both!
2011 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8280ws 2011 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Diesel 2000 Honda S2000
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08-14-2011, 09:57 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lake Charles, La.
Posts: 1,536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrT
I love this forum because it yields so many great ideas. Looking at the periodic table, I'm thinking I'll inflate my tires with Hydrogen, and offset some of the load I'm carrying.
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h2 will penetrate metal.
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08-14-2011, 10:06 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,283
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"We have used nitrogen in our Racing car tires for years..... and trust me the heat or cold doesn't effect the pressure settings as it does compressed air.....and we were making 1/2 lbs. changes in tire pressure to change the handling of the race car. It was not possible to do that with just compressed air !! So if you truly have Nitrogen air in your tires they will NOT increase double the original pressures. Race teams use nitrogen just for the reason....Heat doesn't effect it as much !"
==============================================
Did you have tire pressure monitors? Well, I do, and they indicated the nitrogen filled tires had a larger change in pressure.
As for race cars, if nitrogen doesn't expand, why do nascar cars handle differently with cold tires?
I think I'll believe a proven fact rather than an opinion.
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08-14-2011, 10:55 PM
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#18
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 2,381
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Nigels,
Beg to differ. Nitrogen doesn't burn or explode. The Hidenberg was full of hydrogen, which is very burnable. N2O is also very flammable, as it contains oxygen, and why it is injected in to cars to gain 30 to 40% more horsepower, at least in short spurts, right before the engine blows.
I actually wish this discussion would die, as there are several threads on here about it. Run it, or don't, your money, your choice. Tires are still designed today to run with compressed air, 78% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 2% other stuff, which is what we breathe, They take in to account the pressure change for heat, pressure build up, and other factors. Why do you think they all say "COLD INFLATION"? Yes, nitrogen tires have less pressure change with temp., but is that better? It could be that the tire never gets warm and builds to proper temp/inflation and that is why they blowout. As for the reply on race cars, different tire, different rules, and you are going to change them in 100 miles anyway, so it doesn't apply here.
Note to moderator, start a poll, if you have had a tire blowout in the last 12 months, were your tires filled with nitrogen? Add in date of blowout, date last pressure check, and did you check the tire tread and sidewalls, and speed at which traveling. Let's quit with opinions, and get some data, then we can make a decision with data to back it up.
And keep track for the next 12 months.
__________________
LadyWindrider
2012 Ford F250 ext. Cab 4x4
2002 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
2008 Yamaha V-Star 650 Classic
2008 Work and Play 18LT
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08-14-2011, 11:20 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 643
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Race cars need to get heat in to tires to make them sticky, so they stick to the black top better for cornering, they preheat them in ovens and blankets before putting them on the car and then on the car the car needs to race to keep the heat up at the correct temperature for maximum grip. Cold tires will not be sticky and will have little grip.
What has pressure got to do with this? Too much or too little pressure will affect the contact patch that the tire has with the road, same as a street car too much pressure creates an oval proifile and a centre only contact patch, less grip and wear in the centre only, too low pressure = less grip and wear on the shoulders and the sidewall flex can increase the heat in the tire more than is wanted. Race teams have to juggle both initial and expected tire pressure and tire temperatures combined with track temperatures and track configuration to maximise grip in corners and max straightway speeds.
It is recognised, and race teams know this, that Pure Nitrogen is more suitable than air, in tires under pressure that is, because it does not expand or contract as much as air when affected by heat, so they use it to prevent the ever so slight "unwanted" increase or decrease in tire pressure that may change the tires shape and contact patch. We are talking micro amounts here that only affect serious racing teams looking at miiliseconds in lap times!
So it is true that the OP's opinion that Nitrogen in his truck (trailers and cars included) tires is a waste of time, however because we are talking very small amounts of temperature and pressure and readings need to be instant and simultaneous on all four tires with sophisticated equipment then our attempts at measuring this ourselves will be futile and at best misleading.
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Nigel & Bev
Brit Driver & Canadian Naviguesser
We summer in Cowichan Valley BC Canada & winter in Monchique Portugal great camping in both!
2011 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8280ws 2011 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Diesel 2000 Honda S2000
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08-14-2011, 11:28 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 643
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Windrider ???? I was refering and joking with the post about filling tires with Hydrogen when I refered to the Hindenberg, that burned not so?
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Nigel & Bev
Brit Driver & Canadian Naviguesser
We summer in Cowichan Valley BC Canada & winter in Monchique Portugal great camping in both!
2011 Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite 8280ws 2011 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 Diesel 2000 Honda S2000
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