Nitrogen in tires myth

[crocus]

I finally had a chance to prove the myth that pure nitrogen in tires is a big deal. I had to fix one of the tires on my new Dodge Ram, and just filled it with regular air. We were on a long distance trip, so the tires heated up pretty good, and the pressure in the tires with pure nitrogen went up double what the one with regular air did. So I don't see much advantage to that!

[skgeorgy]

I agree totally. Just a ruse to get one to go to back to the dealership.

[tmmar]

The air we breathe is about 78% nitrogen so I don't see much advantage in paying a premium for 22% additional nitrogen.

[miatared]

It reminds me...

I still have an unopened can of Expo 67 Air. (that was in Montreal in 1967)

Paid $5 back in the day, probably worth a lot more today.

Have not used/sniffed it yet.

[GSF63]

My dealer doesn't even have it there. They told me I'd need to go to a place 10 miles away.

[jackhartjr]

WOW, a scientific method of proof!
Jack

[Ovair]

Here's a thought...

tmmar speaks the truth: the air we breath IS ~78% nitrogen. One of the supposed "benefits" of nitrogen in your tires is that it is a bigger molecule and won't leach out like the oxygen molecule. If oxygen is leaving the tire, that means the percentage of nitrogen remaining inside the tire goes up. Let us say that the gas remaining in your sad tire is now 85% nitrogen (because some oxygen has left). Unless you use 100% oxygen to replace what was lost, you won't get back down to 78% nitrogen. Think of the tire as if it were a basket. Instead of nitrogen and oxygen, we will fill it with 78% golf balls and 22% sand. Give it a shake and a jiggle. The sand (oxygen) will leach out. Top it back off with the 78/22 mixture and you still can not get the entirety of the contents back to a 78/22 mix. You will have a high golf ball to sand ratio from then on. Or should I say you'll have a high nitrogen to oxygen ratio. Essentially, if your tires leach, you probably already have a higher than 78/22 ratio of nitrogen/oxygen inside your tires. And you didn't have to pay for that awesome technological advantage. All you had to do was wait for your tires to weep out some air.

[dc31bhss]

Is it not a benefit to use nitrogen b/c it has no moisture? If you have steel wheels this could be important.
Dan

[BigRed]

aaaaaaaaaaaaa We have used nitrogen in our Racing car tires for years..... and trust me the heat or cold doesn't effect the pressure settings as it does compressed air.....and we were making 1/2 lbs. changes in tire pressure to change the handling of the race car. It was not possible to do that with just compressed air !! So if you truly have Nitrogen air in your tires they will NOT increase double the original pressures. Race teams use nitrogen just for the reason....Heat doesn't effect it as much !

Note: Do you need nitrogen in a trailer tire....NO. Its not worth the cost for the use !

[Nigels]

Originally Posted by Ovair

Here's a thought...

tmmar speaks the truth: the air we breath IS ~78% nitrogen. One of the supposed "benefits" of nitrogen in your tires is that it is a bigger molecule and won't leach out like the oxygen molecule. If oxygen is leaving the tire, that means the percentage of nitrogen remaining inside the tire goes up. Let us say that the gas remaining in your sad tire is now 85% nitrogen (because some oxygen has left). Unless you use 100% oxygen to replace what was lost, you won't get back down to 78% nitrogen. Think of the tire as if it were a basket. Instead of nitrogen and oxygen, we will fill it with 78% golf balls and 22% sand. Give it a shake and a jiggle. The sand (oxygen) will leach out. Top it back off with the 78/22 mixture and you still can not get the entirety of the contents back to a 78/22 mix. You will have a high golf ball to sand ratio from then on. Or should I say you'll have a high nitrogen to oxygen ratio. Essentially, if your tires leach, you probably already have a higher than 78/22 ratio of nitrogen/oxygen inside your tires. And you didn't have to pay for that awesome technological advantage. All you had to do was wait for your tires to weep out some air.

I'm going to fill my tires with golf balls and sand and that will solve all my problems

[prof_fate]

Sounds like a job for the Mythbusters!

[Ovair]

Originally Posted by Nigels

I'm going to fill my tires with golf balls and sand and that will solve all my problems

You just invented a "budget run flat" tire. Errrrr good luck with that.

[MrT]

I love this forum because it yields so many great ideas. Looking at the periodic table, I'm thinking I'll inflate my tires with Hydrogen, and offset some of the load I'm carrying.

[DobiesDaddy]

We used nitrogen on our Air Force aircraft all the time. It helped maintain the pressure and temp. I have also used it while racing in the SCCA and found the same results.

[Nigels]

Originally Posted by MrT

I love this forum because it yields so many great ideas. Looking at the periodic table, I'm thinking I'll inflate my tires with Hydrogen, and offset some of the load I'm carrying.

No way....... remember the Hindenberg disaster you don't want that to happen at 70mph with your Chinese trailer tires, far too dangerous...........Helium is the way to go!

Failing that N2O Nitrous Oxide if you want a good laugh or bit more Horse Power in your tires

[jimh]

Originally Posted by MrT

I love this forum because it yields so many great ideas. Looking at the periodic table, I'm thinking I'll inflate my tires with Hydrogen, and offset some of the load I'm carrying.

h2 will penetrate metal.

[crocus]

"We have used nitrogen in our Racing car tires for years..... and trust me the heat or cold doesn't effect the pressure settings as it does compressed air.....and we were making 1/2 lbs. changes in tire pressure to change the handling of the race car. It was not possible to do that with just compressed air !! So if you truly have Nitrogen air in your tires they will NOT increase double the original pressures. Race teams use nitrogen just for the reason....Heat doesn't effect it as much !"
==============================================
Did you have tire pressure monitors? Well, I do, and they indicated the nitrogen filled tires had a larger change in pressure.
As for race cars, if nitrogen doesn't expand, why do nascar cars handle differently with cold tires?
I think I'll believe a proven fact rather than an opinion.

[LadyWindrider]

Nigels,


Beg to differ. Nitrogen doesn't burn or explode. The Hidenberg was full of hydrogen, which is very burnable. N2O is also very flammable, as it contains oxygen, and why it is injected in to cars to gain 30 to 40% more horsepower, at least in short spurts, right before the engine blows.

I actually wish this discussion would die, as there are several threads on here about it. Run it, or don't, your money, your choice. Tires are still designed today to run with compressed air, 78% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 2% other stuff, which is what we breathe, They take in to account the pressure change for heat, pressure build up, and other factors. Why do you think they all say "COLD INFLATION"? Yes, nitrogen tires have less pressure change with temp., but is that better? It could be that the tire never gets warm and builds to proper temp/inflation and that is why they blowout. As for the reply on race cars, different tire, different rules, and you are going to change them in 100 miles anyway, so it doesn't apply here.

Note to moderator, start a poll, if you have had a tire blowout in the last 12 months, were your tires filled with nitrogen? Add in date of blowout, date last pressure check, and did you check the tire tread and sidewalls, and speed at which traveling. Let's quit with opinions, and get some data, then we can make a decision with data to back it up.

And keep track for the next 12 months.

[Nigels]

Race cars need to get heat in to tires to make them sticky, so they stick to the black top better for cornering, they preheat them in ovens and blankets before putting them on the car and then on the car the car needs to race to keep the heat up at the correct temperature for maximum grip. Cold tires will not be sticky and will have little grip.

What has pressure got to do with this? Too much or too little pressure will affect the contact patch that the tire has with the road, same as a street car too much pressure creates an oval proifile and a centre only contact patch, less grip and wear in the centre only, too low pressure = less grip and wear on the shoulders and the sidewall flex can increase the heat in the tire more than is wanted. Race teams have to juggle both initial and expected tire pressure and tire temperatures combined with track temperatures and track configuration to maximise grip in corners and max straightway speeds.

It is recognised, and race teams know this, that Pure Nitrogen is more suitable than air, in tires under pressure that is, because it does not expand or contract as much as air when affected by heat, so they use it to prevent the ever so slight "unwanted" increase or decrease in tire pressure that may change the tires shape and contact patch. We are talking micro amounts here that only affect serious racing teams looking at miiliseconds in lap times!

So it is true that the OP's opinion that Nitrogen in his truck (trailers and cars included) tires is a waste of time, however because we are talking very small amounts of temperature and pressure and readings need to be instant and simultaneous on all four tires with sophisticated equipment then our attempts at measuring this ourselves will be futile and at best misleading.

[Nigels]

Windrider ???? I was refering and joking with the post about filling tires with Hydrogen when I refered to the Hindenberg, that burned not so?