Phantom Voltage

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 08:25 AM

Hi all, I titled this post as Phantom Voltage because I’m getting a 13-14 vdc signal coming into my Daydreamer when the batteries are completely disconnected and my inverter also disconnected and I’m only plugged into shore power.
Unfortunately I have contacted Forest River 4 times by phone and sent 3 emails asking to be able to speak to tech support in hopes they could help me but the only reply I received from there “service rep” was a battery wire diagram????
I have located the house 120vac breaker that powers this source of dc Voltage but I cannot find what is actually putting it out.
This dc signal underload seems to deteriorate slowly and then comes on again in a few minutes. I would really appreciate any input into finding where it maybe coming from because other than removing the underbelly or roof to try and follow that output wire from the breaker I haven’t gotten a clue. Again the batteries are completely disconnected and my inverter is out of the circuit.
Thank you for any help.
Chuck

**wmtire** · 10-02-2018, 08:29 AM

You can have a converter that takes 120 volt AC and converts it to 12 volt DC.

This converter does this to operate the things that work off 12 volt DC in your RV, instead of the battery always doing it...and it also is your battery recharger when connected to shore power.

This thread may help:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...nt-152813.html

You may also have a circuit breaker in your electrical distribution panel to the converter.

formerFR · 10-02-2018, 08:34 AM

if you're plugged into external 120v power, shore power, then sure, your Converter is going to be providing 12vs to all 12v devices and appliances, and the fuse panel, of course. It would have nothing to do with the batteries, except that they now will not be charged.

Duckogram · 10-02-2018, 08:38 AM

The Daydreamer is an older model so my suggestion may not be exact. I would suggest that you pull the reverse polarity fuse on your converter. You may have more than one and it/they may be floor mounted rather then internal to your power center. The voltage you describe is common from a converter/charger. An Inverter only switches 12V dc to 120v AC. An inverter should not work with the batteries disconnected.
Not too many Daydreamer folks around but you might try posting in the Cedar Creek 5th wheel section. They may be lurking there.
Good Luck,
Ducky

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 08:51 AM

I understand, the problem is the dealership when I purchased it new in 09 said it didn’t have a converter only a inverter for the refrigerator
. I think it may have a converter but I can not locate it.
Chuck

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 08:58 AM

Hi Ducky, yes I know I have the inverter and it is only used for the refrigerator. The batteries are feeding the inverter and the house power 12vdc fuse panel.
They said I don’t have a converter but with the batteries removed from the camper and the converter disconnected, I have a 120vac circuit breaker that is supplying 13 plus vdc from I believe a converter that I can not locate. I was hoping someone would say look here or there because I have looked all over and can’t find it. Thank you for your input
Chuck

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 09:05 AM

WM tire, yes I do have the inverter for my refrigerator but with everything physicallly disconnected (batteries and inverter) I have dc Voltage from a hidden source that is being powered be 120 breaker. This is what I’m trying to locate where they may have hid this converter because I cannot find it in the house or in the basement or behind the removable walls covering the water heater or the water pump areas
Any advice where it may be hiding ?
Chuck

formerFR · 10-02-2018, 09:10 AM

a Converter will typically be within the same housing as the Main Panel/Fuse Panel... remove the panel cover and it should be at the bottom area.

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 09:14 AM

Duckogram , I have a breaker labeled Converter. I actually pulled the breaker panel out and looked behind it thinking I would find the converter but I found a empty plug in receptacle . Nothing pulged in and nothing lying on the floor that was pulled out.
Now comes the good part, there is a 15 amp breaker that has a pencil marking “CV” ...and this is what is powering that 13 vdc signal. But I can not find the unit producing it, any ideas where they might have hid it ?

Scrapper · 10-02-2018, 09:20 AM

Some converters are mounted directly to the back of circuit breaker/fuse panel. As mentioned by others your RV needs 12vdc to operate the lights, furnace and other 12v systems. The output of the converter is actually 13 to 14 volts. With the Daydreamer being a 5er then the converter could be near the battery compartment.

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 09:21 AM

Thank you Former I will take it apart again, what size wire do you think would be on the secondary side of it #12 or #14 for the charging circuit? I’m asking because I see the 120 volt wire coming from the circuit breaker to it ( where ever it is ) but it must be feeding the batteries from some place not near the batteries because there are no wires anywhere attached to any battery cables that would suggest it was the charging wires

Duckogram · 10-02-2018, 09:22 AM

I’m having trouble posting. Park signal is intermittent.

When you say you pulled the breaker panel did you mean you pulled the cover or the whole panel?

Duckogram · 10-02-2018, 09:25 AM

Typicallly, the battery cables will go to a buss. It is at that point that everything connects. Here is what my WFCO looked like
and the inverter and buss wiring on my 2012.
Im my ‘03, I had 2 surface mounted 45W converters.
In my ‘12, the converter was internal to the power dist. panel.

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 09:29 AM

Thank you Scrapper
It also is powering my LP Gas monitor alarm because that’s how I found that I had a phantom power source, the alarm would go off when it’s Voltage dips under 8vdc , and because I had all my house batteries disconnected, that dc source which would come on & off would bleed down to about 3 vdc causing the propane alarm to sound and then when the converter when back on it would deliver 13.5 volts and the alarm would silence. This is what started me on my search for this converter that the factory said I don’t have 🤦🏻*♂️

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 09:36 AM

I pulled out the whole panel in hopes I would find that converter behind it. The only thing I saw was a empty converter receptacle.
But there was another 15 amp breaker naked by pencil with CV which I take to stand for converter and that breaker when I turn it on and off that 12 vdc signal comes on and goes off. But I would physically have to somehow hand trace that wire because there is nothing behind that power panel

**wmtire** · 10-02-2018, 09:37 AM

Some 5'vers have the converter under the bedroom stairs, Some have them mounted in the pass thru storage compartment, which you may have to remove an access panel to access either.

There is no apparent rhyme or reason to an end user, and each RV can be different.

Duckogram · 10-02-2018, 09:47 AM

Sorry for the chopped up responses.
... the inverter is a pass through so nothing has to be done when switching from shore to house power. The + battery cables split with one going to the inverter and one to the buss. Then the buss has the levelers direct wired along with the Alta control (above the buss). This is all in the front compartment behind the 4x6v batts. From the buss, you can see the cables going up. They go under the bathroom floor back to the power dist panel. I believe the one that the converter/charger is connected to is isolated from the one going to the inverter.

CNacc · 10-02-2018, 09:50 AM

WM you’re absolutely right, there no standard area for putting them. That’s why I took 2 cabinets apart very carefully but that was a waste of time .
That’s why I’m upset with Forest River because I can not even get to talk to someone who may know where to look . Right now I’m facing removing the protective underbelly and try to hand over hand the wire coming from that circuit breaker and that is going to be a royal pain in the butt

Duckogram · 10-02-2018, 09:51 AM

OK last part. ...It is the 12v battery that you have to follow to find the converter/charger. You can follow it from the Power Dist end or the battery end.

Edit: Post 12 may be important.

Cypressloser · 10-02-2018, 09:57 AM

Chuck, would you be able to post a picture of your electric control panel with make and model #. Also, I believe everything is working just fine as you describe it, the 120 Volt AC goes into the control panel and supplies 120 Volt AC to the converter, which may be internal or external, to produce 12 Volt DC to supply power for the lights, water pump, furnace, etc. and charge the batteries if they are present. The converter powers up as soon as 120 Volt AC is on.

As a side note, are you sure your 2009 model RV has an inverter for a residential fridge, unless you replaced the original you most likely have a standard gas/electric RV fridge.

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