Portable generator advice for newbie

[4eversmiling]

My husband and I are brand new to RVing, so we're hoping you experts can help us out. We bought a Duromax 10,000W portable generator to power our new fifth wheel when out in the country. We‘ve used a basic surge protector at campgrounds, but do we need to use one with the generator? My concern is that the surge protector that worked perfectly at the campground is giving us odd readings when plugged into the generator. It's a 50AMP connection, and when plugged into the generator, the lights on the surge protector first indicated "missing L1 120 V". A month later, we plugged it in again and this time the lights indicate "open neutral". We haven't plugged in the RV yet because we're afraid me could do some major damage. Should we be concerned or can we just plug the RV directly into the generator, bypassing the surge protector? One additional thing - we bought a 2017 Cedar Creek Champagne 38EL. We've tried to figure out if that RV came with any built in surge protection, but the specs don't seem to explain much. Please help! We're so confused.

[Bluepill]

Your generator probably lacks a neutral-ground bond. Easy to fix.

Video here:

https://youtu.be/Wr3ZKDN-8Go

There is much less need for a surge protector on a generator circuit, since you are not connected to the power grid that gets lightning strikes to overhead transmission lines. It is also possible that momentary voltage sag (when large loads like air conditioners switch on if you are on generator power) will cause the surge protector trip out.

[bikendan]

I hate to tell you but that generator will violate noise rules in every campground I've been in and read about, in 30 years of camping.

It's fine for boondocking or motor races but not in a campground.

You need an inverter generator for campground usage.

[Taranwanderer]

Originally Posted by bikendan

You need an inverter generator for campground usage.

+1. And then you definitely won't need a surge protector, because the inverter style generator produces a much safer, steadier wave that's safe even for delicate electronics, and as such, your camper as well. 20 minutes of running the unit you have now--you'll want to pull your hair out because you won't be able to hear yourself think, your neighbors will want to hook up your camper themselves and tow you out of the CG, and the rangers will already be filling out portions of the violation they're going to hit you with.

[hdmtnrider]

bikendan, OP states that they bought the generator for use when out in the "Country" and not in CG.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by hdmtnrider

bikendan, OP states that they bought the generator for use when out in the "Country" and not in CG.

Sorry, missed that.
Saw campground mentioned numerous times.
Thought that's what they were wanting to use it for.

To the OP, please ignore what I posted.

[4eversmiling]

Originally Posted by Bluepill

Your generator probably lacks a neutral-ground bond. Easy to fix.

Video here:

https://youtu.be/Wr3ZKDN-8Go

There is much less need for a surge protector on a generator circuit, since you are not connected to the power grid that gets lightning strikes to overhead transmission lines. It is also possible that momentary voltage sag (when large loads like air conditioners switch on if you are on generator power) will cause the surge protector trip out.

Bluebill - Thanks for the video link. That looks like an easy solution. So is it safe to say that it's not wise to plug the RV into the generator if there isn't a neutral ground bond? Sorry we're so in the dark on this stuff. Were hoping to get the generator set up and working this weekend but it looks like the grounding plug in that video isn't available in a brick and mortar store. Do you know if this item at Home Depot would accomplish the same thing? Legrand Pass & Seymour 30 Amp 125/250-Volt Grounding Plug-L1430PCCV3 - The Home Depot

[4eversmiling]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Sorry, missed that.
Saw campground mentioned numerous times.
Thought that's what they were wanting to use it for.

To the OP, please ignore what I posted.

Sorry I didn't make that more obvious. We'll be out on the middle of some acreage with no one around, so noise level won't be an issue for anyone else, but now that you've pointed it out, I hope the volume isn't too loud for us! We're learning day by day.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by 4eversmiling

Sorry I didn't make that more obvious. We'll be out on the middle of some acreage with no one around, so noise level won't be an issue for anyone else, but now that you've pointed it out, I hope the volume isn't too loud for us! We're learning day by day.

better turn the tv volume up and run the a/c!

[youroo]

Originally Posted by 4eversmiling

Sorry I didn't make that more obvious. We'll be out on the middle of some acreage with no one around, so noise level won't be an issue for anyone else, but now that you've pointed it out, I hope the volume isn't too loud for us! We're learning day by day.

If your like most people "Now" that communicate by "Text " the Extreme generator noise won't be a issue! Youroo! !

[jonrjen]

Don't get overly concerned about the noise, there are a few dozen videos on YouTube as to how to hush them down to a level of social acceptance.

We also went with a large portable generator, not so much for just the RV use but also to power the house with in weather events leaving us without power. Now we use the same 50amp cord that is used to plug the RV in with the exception that it plugs into the generator and then into the power out let installed in the garage for such use.

And yes, it is all legal with the proper electrical panel lock outs in place.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by 4eversmiling

Sorry I didn't make that more obvious. We'll be out on the middle of some acreage with no one around, so noise level won't be an issue for anyone else, but now that you've pointed it out, I hope the volume isn't too loud for us! We're learning day by day.

Simply plug your RV into the generator without your portable surge protector.
You will be fine. In looking at the specs for the generator, it mentions having 'built in AC and DC regulators' so I'm guessing a surge protector is already built into the generator.

The need for the 'edison plug' is because some EMS (electrical management system) units will lock out the incoming power if it doesn't see the neutral and ground bonded together. The link Bluepill posted explains it very well. If you are having trouble finding a 'edison plug' here is a link to the one Progressive industries (makers of EMS units) sells. *GENERATOR PLUG*

You mentioned you are not sure if your rig came with an EMS but you will only need the 'edison plug' if it did.

[4eversmiling]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Simply plug your RV into the generator without your portable surge protector.
You will be fine. In looking at the specs for the generator, it mentions having 'built in AC and DC regulators' so I'm guessing a surge protector is already built into the generator.

The need for the 'edison plug' is because some EMS (electrical management system) units will lock out the incoming power if it doesn't see the neutral and ground bonded together. The link Bluepill posted explains it very well. If you are having trouble finding a 'edison plug' here is a link to the one Progressive industries (makers of EMS units) sells. *GENERATOR PLUG*

You mentioned you are not sure if your rig came with an EMS but you will only need the 'edison plug' if it did.

Thanks for clarifying, especially on whether or not I can plug the RV into the generator without the surge protector. We'll give it a try and if it doesn't work, we'll order the generator plug. So thankful for all you experienced RVers willing to help the rest of us out!

[bar1991]

There are many generator when running on full load they are less the 50dba. look for generator that have less then 50dba and your neighbors love you.

[hankpac]

Raised by the OP regarding Surge: If a generator runs until it is out of fuel, and does that loping-almost out of fuel thing they do, Is THAT considered "Surge" and can it do damage to electronics like the fridge control board, or the main box?
Or are we only concernd with over-amperage?

[Bluepill]

Originally Posted by hankpac

Raised by the OP regarding Surge: If a generator runs until it is out of fuel, and does that loping-almost out of fuel thing they do, Is THAT considered "Surge" and can it do damage to electronics like the fridge control board, or the main box?
Or are we only concernd with over-amperage?

Good question. Fridge and DSI water heater control boards are 12 volt, so erratic A/C voltage will not have an effect. The converter/charger and other 120 volt loads (microwave, TV, A/C, etc.) *might not* like the voltage and frequency drop as the genny surges. Best to flip off the main breaker at the genny or power panel if you think you are going low on fuel.

[SidecarFlip]

What always concerns me (and why I always run an inverter pure sine wave) is, the modified sine wave a normal 3600 rpm 2 pole genny makes is hard on just about anything solid state, your converter included.... and the frequency variation too.

Inverter genny's make true sine wave 60 hz electronically, not mechanically. The mechanics are actually a DC generator head (which is partially why all of them have an 'economy' mode) because it don't really matter what rpm the generator head is spinning at, so long as it's making amperage...the electronics convert the dc output to ac and regulate the frequency.

With a 2 pole AC genny, 60 hz is entirely dependent on rotor RPM. It has to be maintained at 3600 rpm exactly to produce 60 hz, Any fluctuation in the RPM cause the cps to fluctuate and a normal 2 pole head, even if skew wound, will only produce a modified sine wave, much like a cheap 12 volt to 110 volt nverter does.

Why conventional genny's are usually half the price of an equal output inverter. It's all in frequency stability and waveform output.

Finally, pretty easy to quiet down a 3600 rpm screamer.. Just add a couple foot length of flexible exhaust tubing (JC Whitney or Autozone) and clamp it to the muffler outlet and point it away from people. That will reduce the noise a lot.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by SidecarFlip

Finally, pretty easy to quiet down a 3600 rpm screamer.. Just add a couple foot length of flexible exhaust tubing (JC Whitney or Autozone) and clamp it to the muffler outlet and point it away from people. That will reduce the noise a lot.

Not necessarily true.

Most of the noise is from the motor, not the muffler on modern generators.

That's why those that own open frame generators have to build a insulated box with vent fants.

[SidecarFlip]

Generators really haven't really much changed the last 30 years except for the inverter and the old screamers had cast iron engines (quieter) and the new ones are aluminum engines (more noise) Quieting the exhaust will help.....

Not keen on putting one in a box, fan or not.

[DavidBo]

Originally Posted by hankpac

Raised by the OP regarding Surge: If a generator runs until it is out of fuel, and does that loping-almost out of fuel thing they do, Is THAT considered "Surge" and can it do damage to electronics like the fridge control board, or the main box?
Or are we only concernd with over-amperage?

I have a similar concern with the air conditioner, that loping can't be good for the compressor as they should never be rapidly cycled. I'm wondering if the heavy load created by the A/C will prevent the generator from loping and just shut it down rapidly? I'm not willing to sacrifice my A/C by testing it!