power problems

Vinny · 09-23-2010, 11:13 PM

Hello all,I purchased a 2011 ckts sabre on tue, I purchased an adapter cord, It has a 50 amp to the 5er and two leads to plug into, A 30 amp and a regular extension cord. I notice today that the battery is completly dead. My extension does have power to it. But nothing inside the camper will work, (lights, fridge, fan, tv etc)... So I pulled the truck up to it and hooked up the pigtail from the hitch to the plug in on the truck and everything works as normal. Any help on the problem I am having. Thank you. I leave on a 1200 mile trip tomorrow and just discoved this problem.

**Herk7769** · 09-24-2010, 01:38 AM

What did you plug in (shore Power wise) at home? Do you have a place to plug in both cords on the pigtail or did you just plug in the 20 amp extension cord leg and not use the 30 amp leg?

If you only used the 20 amp leg (the part with a "regular" 110AC plug) you were most likely not powering the converter.

I don't have a 50 amp rig or know how your pigtail is actually wired, so this is conjecture. It would make sense that the 30AMP leg would power all your rig (Including the converter) except the 2nd AC and some other "heavy draw item" that came off the 20 amp leg. So if you just plugged in the 20 amp cord of the pigtail the converter would not be powered and your battery would discharge.

Use a 30/20 amp adapter plug on the 30 amp pigtail and plug that into your 20 amp shorepower source and see if that fixes your issue.

Mowat · 09-24-2010, 01:59 AM

Go out and get a 50 to 20 adapter. That is what you need. That cheater pigtail. Is for cg's that only have a 30 amp. It splits the 2 legs of the normal 50.

3 Happy Campers · 09-24-2010, 07:01 AM

I agree with mowat.

A 50 amp RV is not really one 50 amp ckt.
You have two hot wires each with 110 volts.
One supplies 30 amps & the other 20 amps.

When you’re plugged into a 50 amp service everything in the RV is juiced up.
When you plug into a 30 amp the convertor does the switching as demand is needed in the RV.
Plugging into the 20 amp will just power up a couple outlets or devices but leave most of the RV dead.

There’s a video out there that does a real good job explaining how a 50 amp system works but I can’t remember what site I saw it on.
Sad thing is I watched it only a week ago & thought I book marked it.

Mowat · 09-24-2010, 07:45 AM

It was early morning quick explanation... :-)

A little more about that cheater which a sales guy tried to talk me into as well.

The cheater pigtail takes the 4 poles ( 2 positive 2 neg .. and I know this is 100% correct but it's a good simple explanation ).. which combined makes up 220 volts. When you use the pigtail it splits it into 2 110's. The converter on RV can't function if it doesn't have 220 volts. It can function with 20amp ( you'll just blow your house fuse if you pull more than 20amp.

BUT if you don't connect both of those pigtail ends you will not generate the full 220 volts. This is the part that they don't explain when they talk you into this thing. It's a ok tool if you only have a 30amp and a 20amp circuit at a campsite but you HAVE to plug in both of them.

Some links

This is what you want

50-Amp-to-15-Amp Twist-Lock Adapter - Item - Camping World

( example only .. make sure you check the twist lock side )

This is what you have..

RV Cheater Box - 50 amps from 30 & 20

( wierd that campingworld doesn't carry this..

**Herk7769** · 09-24-2010, 08:25 AM

Vinny,

http://www.americanrvcompany.com/ass...s/wf893050.pdf

This looks like a good representation of a 50 amp panel.
Yours should be similar.
There are an equal number of 120 volt AC circuits on each leg of the 220 inputs.

The 12VDC inverter circuit should be fed from one of the legs (not both). It sounds like the "20amp" leg is not the one.

3 Happy Campers · 09-24-2010, 10:03 AM

As has been discussed recently here on this board, it’s best if you can get an electrician out to install a dedicated 30 or 50 amp line to the outside of your house/garage.
Don’t just try & modify/replace the existing 15/20 amp outlet.

NWJeeper · 09-24-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mowat

The converter on RV can't function if it doesn't have 220 volts. It can function with 20amp ( you'll just blow your house fuse if you pull more than 20amp.

BUT if you don't connect both of those pigtail ends you will not generate the full 220 volts.

WOW! OK for anyone who may read this in the future, listen up real carefully, THERE IS NOTHING ON AN RV THAT IS 220 VOLTS! DO NOT TRY AN CONNECT AN RV TO 220 VOLTS You will blow up the converter an anything else that is on and plugged in at the time.

Come on guys we need to be sure we are passing good information here that isn't going to lead someone to damage their RVs

Converters NEVER "run on 220 volts" they are 110volt only.

**Bama Rambler** · 09-24-2010, 12:06 PM

Listen to NW!

Here's how the "cheater" works.

The 30 amp plug is connected to one hot leg of the 50 amp circuit.
The 20 amp plug is connected to the other hot leg of the 50 amp circuit.
The "cheater" does NOT combine the 30 & 20 amp legs for 50 amps.
It can't combine them because there's no telling which phase each one will be on at any particular installation. In one instance they may be on the same phase and another, on different phases. BOOM!!!

Mowat · 09-24-2010, 12:13 PM

I said this was the simple explantion not the full details. The point is the same the inverter will not function with out both legs having power.

And yes NW I said 220 I meant 240. And the 50amp service plug is 240

The 50-amp 120/240-volt 3 pole 4

NWJeeper · 09-24-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mowat

I said this was the simple explantion not the full details. The point is the same the inverter will not function with out both legs having power.

And yes NW I said 220 I meant 240. And the 50amp service plug is 240

The 50-amp 120/240-volt 3 pole 4

Absolutely NOT!

Regardless of 220 or 240 makes no difference. Yes the receptacle you plug into is two 110V circuits supplied in one plug. RV converters DO NOT RUN ON 220 volts as you stated.

We have had others here make that mistake only to fry their converter/charger. A converter (not inverter) only runs on 110 volts! ONE LEG, (hot and neutral) not two legs (hot, hot, neutral) which would in fact be 220volts.

Using a 50 to 30 amp adapter on our shore power cord and then a 30 to 20 amp adapter and plugged into a 20amp outlet runs our entire rig. We have power to the AC, the microwave, everything! Albeit only 20 amps not 50.

As to the OPs original post, he should have power to everything no matter if using 50/30 or 20 amp. If the batteries are not charging then there may be a blown fuse on the converter/charger or some other problem.

Vinny · 09-24-2010, 01:28 PM

I went to the RV store and purchased the 50 to 20 amp adapter and everything is working as it should. I will soon convert my hot tub outlet to be used for the 5er. Thank you all for the help. Learned alot this morning.

**Herk7769** · 09-24-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWJeeper

THERE IS NOTHING ON AN RV THAT IS 220 VOLTS! DO NOT TRY AN CONNECT AN RV TO 220 VOLTS

I "think" that is what I have been trying to say. That there are two 110 volt legs going into the coach. Phase does not matter since they never "join" to create the 220 volts.

camprat · 09-24-2010, 05:51 PM

NWJeeper is right & this why! Three prongs is a 120 volt plug / four prongs is a 240 volt plug for RV or house trailer. Forget about amp for now. Four prong has two power, one neutral isolated & ground/ three prongs one power, one neutral ( isolated again) & ground. Now the amp is by the configuration of the prongs. That is why you you can not plug a 20 amp into a 50 amp . YOU CAN NOT , I say it again make a three prongs plug for a trailer or RV A 240 VOLT plug without smoking your trailer. I had a licensed for over 20 yr. As for changing the house hot tub change over there maybe only three wire, you will have to make changes at the panel to if you have a 50 amp/120 volt.

Now I think what Herk7769 was getting at with the two pig tail setup for 240 volt is being used. But the problem is it doesn't have a match 240 volt two pole breaker for amp. . But you can only us it on a FOUR prong plug.

caper · 09-24-2010, 06:17 PM

RV Electric Check out the the web site it tells how the 50 amp rv service works and hw to wire up an outlet for home use.

camprat · 09-24-2010, 07:54 PM

Caper has a good web sit to go too. Take the time to check it out. Keep in mine as look over the web page that any thing deal with RV & trailer cords plug or outlets to plug for 120/240 will be four prong & 120 volt three prong. There is mix of old & new outlet not used in RV & more in a houses.

Vinny you have a 120/240v 50 amp plug. Your best thing to do is get a electrician to install the 50 amp outlet for you. but back to the 20-30amp pig tail, get a 30amp-15 amp crossover, plug it in 30 amp side of pig tail & to your 120v house outlet. You will only power half of your RV, But you will be on the converter side. This will charge your batteries. IF you have a 120/240v/50 amp panel. if you are using only the 120volt of the 120/240 plug everything will come on. You can Look at your Main breaker in the trailer , if one 120v, if two 240V. I say it a 50 amp single .

camprat · 09-24-2010, 09:56 PM

Anybody say a RV can't run on 240volt is wrong, It can just not for long. My brother got a ALF Gold & the dealer changed out plug for him & I pointed out to him after the smoke cleared.They wire the neutral hot. Well the dealer cost was about 5000.00.

**Herk7769** · 09-24-2010, 10:30 PM

As I said earlier, I don't have 50 amp service in my camper. I thought I understood the concepts, however while I can read the wiring diagram in the installation manual, I really have to say I am totally confused now by the conficting opinions regarding this topic and will bow out gracefully.

NWJeeper · 09-25-2010, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camprat

Anybody say a RV can't run on 240volt is wrong, It can just not for long. My brother got a ALF Gold & the dealer changed out plug for him & I pointed out to him after the smoke cleared.They wire the neutral hot. Well the dealer cost was about 5000.00.

Yes this is the results of wiring 240 to an RV, you let all the smoke out of the electrical stuff and then it doesn't work anymore. Anyone knows that electonics work on smoke. Once it gets out, they don't work anymore.

jimh · 10-02-2010, 10:24 PM

NEMA 5 and NEMA 6 are too close for my comfort. the others are easy to pick out the differences. i see that on the 5&6 plug the large plug is on opposite sides, but at first glance it would be easy for me to miss the difference. if u ask me point blank which side the large plug goes on on a 15 a 110v outlet, i would have to say i don't know. but i don't know or a 220 outlet that looks the same but swaps the location of the large plug.

if u look at the 50amp braker for the campground service, the two brakers are ganged (one trip takes out both) that what i would expect in a 220 circuit. both are meant to work together. i would not expect to see that bar if they were intended to be 2 110v.

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