question on weights

[frednkim09]

We are new to RVing and considering a 2010 Grey Wolf 29BH. We own a 2008 Chrysler Aspen and plan to get a 10K hitch installed.

This is what we found on the trailer:

hitch weight = 683 lbs
axle wegiht = 5148 lbs
ship weight = 5831 (the dealer keeps referring to this # as what our vehicle can tow)
GVWR w/brakes = 7683

According to Chrysler specs our vehicle has:
wheelbase of 119.2
extra tow package
can pull 6800 pounds

Now a good friend who has pulled 28-30' trailers for over 30 years was trying to explain that there is a weight distributor/equalizer wtih the hitch enables you to pull additional weight.

Please advised, this is so confusing

Thanks!

[Dave_Monica]

Welcome to the forum!

The shipping weight is the trailer as delivered without water, propane or any of your gear for camping. You can realistically add about 1000lbs to the shipping weight as far as what you'll be pulling down the road. That would put you right at the maximum tow weight for your Aspen. A weight distribution hitch with sway control is a must but would not impact on the maximum weight that your vehicle can tow.

Dave

[NWJeeper]

Just a hunch or call it a premonition but I think you are going to be dissapointed pulling such a trailer with an SUV based on what I have heard from others.

[WoodLark]

I just went through the same type of calculations as I just bought both a travel trailer and tow vehicle. Based on the numbers you quote, that Aspen is going to be seriously overloaded. For a trailer with that much weight you should be using at least a 1/2 ton pickup with factory tow package, and would probably be better off with a 3/4 ton. Good rule of thumb:

"Total LOADED weight of trailer should be less than 80% of tow vehicle's maximum tow rating".

Also, with a wheelbase of 119.2", a trailer that long is going to play crack-the-whip with you on the highway. You should be looking at trailers with an overall length (hitch point to rear bumper) of less than 23 feet. Another good rule of thumb:

"110 inch wheelbase can safely pull 20 ft (overall) trailer. Each additional 4 inches will allow an additional foot in trailer length".

Yes, there are people who exceed these limits and get away with it, but they are just lucky. Don't take the risk! Unfortunately, too many dealers will say whatever they need to to make a sale.

Hope you find what you are looking for. STAY SAFE!

[powerboatr]

Originally Posted by frednkim09

We are new to RVing and considering a 2010 Grey Wolf 29BH. We own a 2008 Chrysler Aspen and plan to get a 10K hitch installed.

This is what we found on the trailer:

hitch weight = 683 lbs
axle wegiht = 5148 lbs
ship weight = 5831 (the dealer keeps referring to this # as what our vehicle can tow)
GVWR w/brakes = 7683

According to Chrysler specs our vehicle has:
wheelbase of 119.2
extra tow package
can pull 6800 pounds

Now a good friend who has pulled 28-30' trailers for over 30 years was trying to explain that there is a weight distributor/equalizer wtih the hitch enables you to pull additional weight.

Please advised, this is so confusing

Thanks!

GVWR w/brakes = 7683 this is max weight your trailer can be as per the manufactuer.
can pull 6800 pounds.... this is probably incorrect

you need a few things about your tow vehicle first
whats its GVWR? (gross vehicle weight rating)
and what is its GCVWR? (Gross combined vehicle weight rating, this is itself and what its pulling)
GAWR (gross axle weight rating front and rear)
What does it weigh with you and your passengers onboard?
chryslers website can help you get the correct GVWR based on what options your truck has, axle ratio engine, factory tow packages, etc

once you have your vehicles empty weight
and GVWR
you can do some math.
subtract your vehicles empty weight from its GVWR and that will give you PAYLOAD. however, keep in mind that could exceed your axle ratings.
I am not familiar with the Chrysler product, but again their website will shed light on axle ratings and the other ratings you need
but the math doesn't change with a different manufacturer

so to summarize
you need to go weigh your vehicle as you would be loaded to take the rv on a trip, full fuel, gear and passengers.
you need its GVWR
you need its GCVWR
you need its GAWR front/rear

you can subtract the GVWR from the GCVWR and that will give you a strong indicator of what your vehicle is rated to tow.
and i would stay at the 80% rating to give your self some wiggle room
you will be surprised how fast STUFF adds up to overweight
on your rv you need to know GAWR as well for each axle, vice its empty axle weight as prescribed by the builder. If you have already taken possession you need to weigh it as well EMPTY.

and yes you will be using a weight distribution hitch. no ifs and or maybes
it does transfer weight to the front wheels to balance the vehicle and give you steering control. thats why its important to know your vehicles axle ratings. you can adjust weight transfer to add or take away weight from axles if needed, not a lot but it can be enough if your close or over weight.

hope it helps

also click
http://www.trailerboats.com/towratin...t=&max_tlimit=
since apsen is no longer on chryslers site
you can type in your rigs specs and it wil give you a pretty close number
if you have the 5.7 engine....etc, 4wd or 2wd

[MtnGuy]

I agree with others.....the listed "standard" empty weight, with options and battery and propane will be near the max. of your TV....before you add camping gear. Dealers told me that I could pull anything on their lot, but fortunately I didn't follow their lead.

As far as length vs. wheelbase, here is the commonly used chart that WoodLark referred to:

110" 20'******** 150" 30'
114" 21' ******* 154" 31'
118" 22' ******* 158" 32'
122" 23' ******* 162" 33'
126" 24' ******* 166" 34'
130" 25' ******* 170" 35'
134" 26' ******* 174" 36'
138" 27' ******* 178" 37'
142" 28'******** 182" 38'
146" 29'******** 186" 39'

[frednkim09]

I got some more info from Chrysler on our 2008 Aspen:

GVWR 6650
Payload 1570
GCWR 11,000

GAWR front 3600
GAWR rear 3900
Bast Weight Total 5082

dont have our 'loaded' weight, but I think that might be a mute point.

Considering we have most of our numbers, is it safe to say we should be looking at trailers with a weight @ 4000-5000 lbs, and more like 24 feet?

[powerboatr]

Originally Posted by frednkim09

I got some more info from Chrysler on our 2008 Aspen:

GVWR 6650
Payload 1570
GCWR 11,000

GAWR front 3600
GAWR rear 3900
Bast Weight Total 5082

dont have our 'loaded' weight, but I think that might be a mute point.

Considering we have most of our numbers, is it safe to say we should be looking at trailers with a weight @ 4000-5000 lbs, and more like 24 feet?

yup leaves you 4350 pounds of trailer.....if your truck is empty
minus 4 folks at 150 lbs each and your down to 3700 lbs.
at least you know now a good ball park to shoot for
i particularly like the 150 pound rule...as i havent weighed 150 lbs since .....I dont know when.

[Dave_Monica]

Originally Posted by powerboatr

yup leaves you 4350 pounds of trailer.....if your truck is empty

Unless I'm missing something, the 4350lbs for the trailer is what left from the GCWR and the truck's GVWR, which would have to include the trailer tongue weight, passengers, gas, camping gear, etc.

As long as his loaded truck weight (with the trailer attached) is not above the truck's GVWR of 6650lbs, he could still tow a 5000lb trailer (loaded weight) with a 650lb tongue weight.

Dave

[powerboatr]

Originally Posted by Dave_Monica

Unless I'm missing something, the 4350lbs for the trailer is what left from the GCWR and the truck's GVWR, which would have to include the trailer tongue weight, passengers, gas, camping gear, etc.

As long as his loaded truck weight (with the trailer attached) is not above the truck's GVWR of 6650lbs, he could still tow a 5000lb trailer (loaded weight) with a 650lb tongue weight.

Dave

i figured it like this...

gcvwr 11000 minus gvwr of 6650 leaves 4350
i assumed the loaded tow vehicle would be loaded close to its gvwr only because its base weight is so high 5082 and that only includes one person in most manufactures specs. and not any optional equipment.

i agree 5k might be in the range but only marginally at best
we can never really know until we have a real world empty weight.
The base weight listed from mans. is not an absolute, its the base vehicle, base engine and tranny, base interior, etc.

the big three used to have a place on their sites to add all of the extras, like leather seats, radios, different bumpers, interior options, shocks etc and get a real accurate build weight

[frednkim09]

So, it sounds like with this Aspen we should stick to more like 4000-4500 GVWR for our trailer weight.

Since we seriously want to obtain our first RV, our options are:

- finding another ultra lite to accommodate our family of 5 with often 2 additional adults. We really liked the set up and bunks of the 29BH Grey Wolf though probably these models will be over our weight limit. If anyone knows of something comparable, please throw it out there.

- the other option is to trade in the Aspen although we have only had it for about 6 months. Overall, we are happy with it. We previously had a Town&Country minivan, and honestly we had more room in that and gas cost less. Not sure if this is a feasible option with how briefly we have had it. To go up to a 3/4 ton tow vehicle would also keep our gas costs high for the regular around town driving.....agggh, so much more involved than meets the eye.

Thanks so much for your thougts

[MtnGuy]

To sleep 7 people in a travel trailer that could be pulled by an Aspen is going to be hard to find. Have you thought about a tent for the kids when the extra 2 adults travel with you?? Betcha they would love it. Or get a smaller trailer that sleeps 6 and put someone on the floor overnite. Or triple up with a smaller child between Mom and Dad. Gotta be inventive sometimes.

Not to preach about other campers, but Trailmanor makes several models that have 2 permanent beds (1 double plus a King or Queen or another double), plus the dinette table converts to a bed. Some owners will let the kids sleep 3 across on the King or even the queen if the kids are small. We had a Trailmanor, and it was great for a folding camper. And a lot better gas mileage than my current Surveyor.

[bikendan]

or you could look at a hybrid bunkhouse. you'll get at least one queen bed and 2 bunks, maybe four.

a standard hybrid, using dinette and sofa, can sleep at least 6 adults and 2 kids.

[acadianbob]

Something like this Rockwood Expandable Roo 21SS is probably the max you should be pulling IMO.

http://www.forestriverinc.com/nd/def...&series=Expand

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

Something like this Rockwood Expandable Roo 21SS is probably the max you should be pulling IMO.

http://www.forestriverinc.com/nd/def...&series=Expand

Good golly, you ought to be able to sleep 8 in that puppy.

[frednkim09]

Might be worth looking at the hybrid trailers although after all our looking we kinda had our heart set on the bigger model.

Now thinking about trading in for a new tow vehicle.

Which vehicle would be the lesser of the evils as far as gas guzzling goes, but could still pull a 28 footer, like the Grey Wolf 29BH or something comparable?

[Dave_Monica]

Originally Posted by frednkim09

Now thinking about trading in for a new tow vehicle.

If you willing to change tow vehicles, a 1/2T quad cab pick-up from any manufacturer with a tow package would handle the Grey Wolf 28BH with the weights you originally listed. Just need to be somewhat careful with the load in the truck. When they're loaded up with people, gas and gear, the true payload available for trailer tongue weight could easily be less than 1000lbs.

Some manufacturers sell 1/2 T pick-ups with optional heavier suspension to increase the truck's GVWR. Go for the highest GVWR you can get.

Good Luck,
Dave

[georgetown]

We went through the same things you are going through. Wanted to pull a 28 or 29 foot trailer with our H3 hummer. As it turns out the H3 only has a 3.5 ltr 5 cyl engine and can pull a max of 4500 lbs. We did not want to go hybrid, did not want to trade for a truck, because we liked the H3 and got 21 MPG hiway. so after looking at every possible trailer we could tow, fifth wheel and truck combos,etc., we ended up going with a 33 ft, class A motor home and towing the H3. Gas mileage may be not so good, but no worse that a 3/4 or 1 ton pulling a 5 wheel, but once parked, we drive the H3 that we liked and did not want to part with. Just a thought to ponder. As someone told us.... there are thousands of RV's out there and you just have to keep looking, you will know the right one for you when you find it, you will walk in and say, ya this is it, may take a while but will happen it did for us, must have looked at hundreds, take your time, and good luck

[edman87k5]

I have a 2010 greywolf 28bh myself, but pull with a 3/4 ton.
I do believe the numbers and rating are important but many on this sit etend to only be concerned with the numbers and not real world towing. Many people pull 30'+ trailers with 1/2 ton trucks and I believe that is just asking for trouble. Stability on the road has more factors than what is on a id tag. Throw in a rondom crosswind and those tags dont mean much.
If you are new to pulling a tt, it is a lot different that a utility trailer in that is has a lot more surface area and wind and wind resistance affect it a lot. I have never weighed my trailer but loaded with my normal gear it is somewhere in the 7k range. It pulls entirely different than my utility trailer loaded with a vehicle on it even though it is close to the same weight.
Personally, if I had an aspen, I would be looking at a small 20'ish tt or a popup, actually I would get somthing else to tow with.
Just because it will pull it down the road does not mean it is safe or stable or that the vehicle will take the abuse.
I know opinions are like a$$holes, but short suvs have no buisness towing large trailers.

Also to georgetown above- you have got to be the first I have heard to want to pull a trailer with a h3, that thing will barely pull itself empty. Was a dealer actually trying to sell you on almost 30' of trailer to put behind an h3?

[georgetown]

to edman87k5 .... no sorry may be I wasn't to clear. We tried to find something light enough that it would tow that was about 27 to 29 feet, but just not possible, we wanted something fairly large to be able to spend some of the winter in Florida and not be tight for space. So after looking at all sorts of options we decided to go the motor home route and tow the H3.
May not work for everyone, but we are happy with the choice, everyone has there own reasons for choosing the RV they have. Just thought i would throw the idea we had out there in case frednkim09 liked their aspen as much as we liked our H3. Good Luck with your search and decision.