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Old 06-08-2012, 09:57 PM   #51
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Very well put, heard that years ago and have seen it work at Lockheed Martin Missiles & Fire Control and their suppliers. Suppliers were reluctant to change, but LM insisted and the results were astounding and costs went down and quality went up. We even instituted a Zero Defects Group that required zero defects for 12 months and had over 100 suppliers qualify and our source inspectors never had to inspect parts at their plants before shipment. LM saved $ and so did the suppliers by being able to ship immediately.

Eventually the RV industy will get on board just as soon as one or more take the first step.

BTW, the LM MLRS was the first system the US Army has ever fielded that has never had a field failure from when it was introduce in the 1980's to date.
Of course you didn't need inspectors. Inspection is a total waste of money. It simply doesn't work. It is well understood that "Quality can not be inspected in."
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:05 PM   #52
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Of course you didn't need inspectors. Inspection is a total waste of money. It simply doesn't work. It is well understood that "Quality can not be inspected in."
Evidently, "It is well understood that "Quality can not be inspected in." is not understood or we would not have the problems we have with rvs these days.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:21 PM   #53
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Evidently, "It is well understood that "Quality can not be inspected in." is not understood or we would not have the problems we have with rvs these days.
It is indeed well understood by quality control professionals. Unfortunately, the RV industry hasn't seen fit to hire any.

On the other hand, I don't think they have hired many inspectors either.
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:27 AM   #54
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it is all pretty simple

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Originally Posted by Great Horned Owl View Post
Of course you didn't need inspectors. Inspection is a total waste of money. It simply doesn't work. It is well understood that "Quality can not be inspected in."
just can not agree with that
if a company holds to certain standards
and hires inspectors to up hold them
it is all pretty simple
the inspector notices sloppy work done
calls for a re-do
informs said employee
"that don't cut it"
too many don't cut it's
the person is suspended without pay
if repeated
fired

what happened to the American way ??



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Old 06-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #55
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"what happened to the American way ?"

It disappeared along with most of the manufacturing base.
Consumers were not willing to pay for quality, so everything comes from China now.
And now that the economy is about to get much worse, the consumer won't even be able to afford the cheap junk.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:00 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Mountainmanbob View Post
just can not agree with that
if a company holds to certain standards
and hires inspectors to up hold them
it is all pretty simple
the inspector notices sloppy work done
calls for a re-do
informs said employee
"that don't cut it"
too many don't cut it's
the person is suspended without pay
if repeated
fired

what happened to the American way ??



Mountainman
OK, I guess all the QC/QA professionals who spent a career studying the subject must be wrong.

The simple fact is that there are far too many possible defects that no inspector can be expected to notice. As a typical example, a worker absent mindedly grabs some 1/4" screws to mount a cabinet, where he should have used 3/4" screws. The defect is completely invisible, but on the first trip, the cabinet will fall off of the wall.

Established quality assurance methods dictate that the assembly process be set up such that wrong parts that might go unnoticed should not be available. Defect prevention works. Defect detection does not.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:13 AM   #57
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"what happened to the American way ?"

It disappeared along with most of the manufacturing base.
Consumers were not willing to pay for quality, so everything comes from China now.
And now that the economy is about to get much worse, the consumer won't even be able to afford the cheap junk.
Don, go back and read my posts from yesterday. When good quality assurance processes are implemented, products not only get better, but they also get cheaper.

There is no net cost for QA. The reductions in scrap and in warrantee costs will more than pay for the expense of a QA system.
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