Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-11-2013, 08:56 PM   #91
Senior Member
 
EJM4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mechanicsburg - PA
Posts: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Himcules View Post

please update this thread with your findings. i wonder if new front airbags are due as well?
It has been two days and no reply email. Maybe he is on vacation?
__________________

__________________
Earl
2013 Berkshire 390BH / 360hp
EJM4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #92
Senior Member
 
tmmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island (Nassau County), NY
Posts: 4,258
Don't think he is on vacation. Received an email from him yesterday.
__________________

__________________
Tom and Margaret
2014 Berkshire 390bh-60

tmmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 09:59 AM   #93
Senior Member
 
EJM4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mechanicsburg - PA
Posts: 512
How long did it take for him to reply to you in regards to the weight issue?
__________________
Earl
2013 Berkshire 390BH / 360hp
EJM4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 10:13 AM   #94
Senior Member
 
tmmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Long Island (Nassau County), NY
Posts: 4,258
He replied on another issue. He has not replied to an email I sent a few days ago about the weight issue. He says that I must empty my coach and get it weighed but he has done a number of upgrades for others without going through this process. He seems to be selective with regard to this issue.
__________________
Tom and Margaret
2014 Berkshire 390bh-60

tmmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 04:05 PM   #95
Senior Member
 
Hallen01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 102
Dry Weight Analysis

The yellow sticker shows a dry weight and a total allowable weight for water, cargo and passengers. Subtract those two from the white sticker GVWR, and the difference is 804 lbs, which just happens to be the weight of 100 gal diesel, 19.6 gal propane, and 5 gal of oil.

The DEF is included in the cargo.

See the attached PDF file showing my comparison of manufacturer's dry weight with my determination. My determination was 539 lbs heavier than factory, however I did some calcs to back out things like driver weight, slide trays installed, DEF, etc.

I suspect some things get added at the factory that aren't included in the dry weight. One that I know of is the optional double width slide (about 360Lbs).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Empty Weight Comp.pdf (773.9 KB, 15 views)
__________________
Hallen01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 06:22 PM   #96
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home is where I park it
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallen01 View Post
The yellow sticker shows a dry weight and a total allowable weight for water, cargo and passengers. Subtract those two from the white sticker GVWR, and the difference is 804 lbs, which just happens to be the weight of 100 gal diesel, 19.6 gal propane, and 5 gal of oil.

The DEF is included in the cargo.

See the attached PDF file showing my comparison of manufacturer's dry weight with my determination. My determination was 539 lbs heavier than factory, however I did some calcs to back out things like driver weight, slide trays installed, DEF, etc.

I suspect some things get added at the factory that aren't included in the dry weight. One that I know of is the optional double width slide (about 360Lbs).

Couple of points here....... I have heard the story both ways.

First, the manufacturer is allowed to come up with a "generic" empty weight based upon the very first unit they ever build of a certain model, (for ex the Berkshire). Any options they add to each individual coach (like tile floors, monster fridge, etc) come out of the cargo carrying capacity (in other words, robbed from the buyer).

--OR--

Second, the manufacturer is required by law, to weigh EACH unit as it rolls out the door COMPLETELY ready to be delivered. This even includes PAINT, since the coach painting is farmed out to an outside painting company. Also, if the dealer adds anything to the coach over 100 lbs, they are required to re-do the yellow sticker.

--SO--

I would think that if the first story is true, our yellow stickers would all be identical. They are not. Mine specifies an empty weight of 23270 and a carrying capacity of 3835 for people and cargo. I would LOVE to have a CCC that high. So, I'm thinking that the second option is actually the true story.

--NEXT--

I've also heard two thoughts regarding propane.

One says it comes out your CCC, since only fuels, oil, etc required to move the vehicle down the road are counted in the EW.

The other says it does not, but is in included in the EW.

DEF I don't know about.

--FINALLY--

I was weighed (all 4 corners individually) at an Escapees RV Club rally a couple of weeks ago. I am legally overweight.

The certified weighmaster told me that if any state ever makes me cross a DOT scale, the coach will have to be lightened enough to make it legal before I can exit the scale area and continue my trip. In other words some "stuff" will have to go in the dumpster!!!

He said it is rare, but weighing a coach does happen once in awhile especially in Oregon (I think that was the state he mentioned).

He further said that DOT scales will give a semi-truck a little fudge factor (maybe 2-3 hundred lbs), but not one extra pound on a motor home.

Finally (again), he said if involved in an accident, even ONE pound overweight could be used against you in a CIVIL court of law.

Now I don't know about anybody else reading this, but I strongly feel that over-stating a carrying capacity by as much as 2-3K lbs, is very much akin to selling someone a used car on which they have rolled back the odometer by thousands of miles; it's fraud.

Boowho??
__________________
boowho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 08:20 PM   #97
Senior Member
 
EJM4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mechanicsburg - PA
Posts: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by boowho View Post
Couple of points here....... I have heard the story both ways.

First, the manufacturer is allowed to come up with a "generic" empty weight based upon the very first unit they ever build of a certain model, (for ex the Berkshire). Any options they add to each individual coach (like tile floors, monster fridge, etc) come out of the cargo carrying capacity (in other words, robbed from the buyer).

--OR--

Second, the manufacturer is required by law, to weigh EACH unit as it rolls out the door COMPLETELY ready to be delivered. This even includes PAINT, since the coach painting is farmed out to an outside painting company. Also, if the dealer adds anything to the coach over 100 lbs, they are required to re-do the yellow sticker.

--SO--

I would think that if the first story is true, our yellow stickers would all be identical. They are not. Mine specifies an empty weight of 23270 and a carrying capacity of 3835 for people and cargo. I would LOVE to have a CCC that high. So, I'm thinking that the second option is actually the true story.

--NEXT--

I've also heard two thoughts regarding propane.

One says it comes out your CCC, since only fuels, oil, etc required to move the vehicle down the road are counted in the EW.

The other says it does not, but is in included in the EW.

DEF I don't know about.

--FINALLY--

I was weighed (all 4 corners individually) at an Escapees RV Club rally a couple of weeks ago. I am legally overweight.

The certified weighmaster told me that if any state ever makes me cross a DOT scale, the coach will have to be lightened enough to make it legal before I can exit the scale area and continue my trip. In other words some "stuff" will have to go in the dumpster!!!

He said it is rare, but weighing a coach does happen once in awhile especially in Oregon (I think that was the state he mentioned).

He further said that DOT scales will give a semi-truck a little fudge factor (maybe 2-3 hundred lbs), but not one extra pound on a motor home.

Finally (again), he said if involved in an accident, even ONE pound overweight could be used against you in a CIVIL court of law.

Now I don't know about anybody else reading this, but I strongly feel that over-stating a carrying capacity by as much as 2-3K lbs, is very much akin to selling someone a used car on which they have rolled back the odometer by thousands of miles; it's fraud.

Boowho??

Bill,

The sad thing is all the manufactures skirt so close to the line. Even the higher end 40' coaches are close to the limit unless you go with a tag axle & 45' coach.
__________________
Earl
2013 Berkshire 390BH / 360hp
EJM4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 09:04 PM   #98
Senior Member
 
Hallen01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 102
"I've heard that..."

boowho:

CCC is a weight that applies only to towable vehicles. According to 49 CFR Part 571, OCCC (Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity) is for Motorized RVs only, and is the maximum allowable weight of all occupants (including the driver), plus the weight of all food, tools, full fresh water tanks, full LP-Gas tanks and personal belongings. The maximum allowable weight of passengers is based on the number of seat belted positions in the motorized RV. The regulation also states that the tongue weight of towed trailer counts as cargo (only the weight of the hitch itself would be part of the cargo weight, if you are towing flat).

Did you read my attached analysis? It is not coincidence that the GVWR - (EW + Cargo + Occupants) = 804 lbs, which is magically the exact weight of all the fuel, propane, and engine oil.
__________________
Hallen01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2013, 10:49 PM   #99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Home is where I park it
Posts: 1,503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallen01 View Post
boowho:

CCC is a weight that applies only to towable vehicles. According to 49 CFR Part 571, OCCC (Occupant and Cargo Carrying Capacity) is for Motorized RVs only, and
Yes, you are correct. I should not have used CCC, but OCCC for a coach. My bad.

I also did not mention the GCVW (combined) since my toad is so light that I'm well under the 33K lbs limit for that on 390RB-40.

Boowho??
__________________
boowho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2013, 09:38 AM   #100
Senior Member
 
Hallen01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 102
Back to Gaffney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil57 View Post
You can upgrade to a 12000 steer axel and 275 tires. Gaffney did it for me in April. Big improvement. Still limited my the drive train to 33000.
Phil57:

I never did thank you for your tip about the FA mod availability. Randy approved it for my 2013 390RB shortly thereafter, and I get the bigger tires and airbags next Monday in Gaffney.

Attached to my most recent posting (07/17) is an analysis of my "Empty Weight" a.k.a. "Unloaded Vehicle Weight". Basically, it says my calc of EW is 539 lbs over the EW listed on the yellow sticker, but the EW I came up with was an "as delivered" weight, adjusted for a few things (see attachment). Still, 539 lbs is not insignificant discrepancy, even allowing for error.

My EW (UVW) and Cargo Weights listed on the yellow sticker do not add up to the white sticker GVWR (27910 lbs.), but fall short by 804 lbs, which is magically the exact weight of full diesel,propane and engine oil (my attachment also contains accurate sp.gr. of fluids, obtained from the MSDS sheets).

Also, see "rvsafety.com" at Understanding Motorhome Weights | RV Safety.com That's about the most accurate website on the subject of weight definitions I've seen, and is based on a direct reading of the U.S. DOT NHTSA adopted revisions to the regulations in 49 CFR Part 571.

Happy Trails
__________________

__________________
Hallen01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




ForestRiverForums.com is not in any way associated with Forest River, Inc. or its associated RV manufacturing divisions.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 PM.