Dry Weight for 390RB

[boowho]

Originally Posted by Himcules

boowho, which rims do you have now? the alum ones right? they should be able to mount the 275 tires right on them... all the berkshires i have seen have the 22.5 rims, but some with 255 tires and very few with 275... same rims...

NO, I have the standard wheel rims.

Boowho??

[boowho]

Originally Posted by edgewant

I had the upgrade done last month in Gaffney SC at the Freightliner facility. They changed my front airbags and all six tires (from to 255 to 275-80-22.5) My aluminum wheels are big enough to handle the larger tires. It really made a big improvement in the way the coach drives and rides.

I hope they can do my rear airbags, as I'm 900 lbs over on that axle too.

Boowho??

[Jersey Guy]

My coach shows an Oct 2012 build date on the sticker in the cabinet above the cockpit. I have the 275 tires and it shows on the Freightliner sticker in that same cabinet a 19,000 lb rear axle ( I have the 360 hp and 3000 series Allison) and a 12,000 lb front axle. The FR sticker states different numbers, a 10,400 lb front axle. I'm inclined to go with the Freightliner numbers.

[Himcules]

here's mine:

2013 390BH-60
aug 2012 fl chassis build date
sept 17 2012 fr coach build date
oct 2 2012 front fiberglass shell build sticker (next to the passenger headlight inside the generator bay)

freightliner incomplete vehicle component information sticker (inside top cabinet above driver):
front axle: DA-F-10.5-3 10,500# FFI 71.5 KPI/3.74
rear axle: DA-RS-19.0-2 19,000# R-SERIES SINGLE

freightliner incomplete identification data sticker (inside top cabinet above driver):
gvwr/pnbv: 29,410
gawr/pnbe: front: 10,410 rear: 19,000

forest river weight sticker (inside top cabinet above driver):
gvwr/pnbv: 29,410
front: 10,410
rear: 19,000
tire pressures all around at 110 psi
(but it has rear tires listed as 225/80R/22.5G which is not the case)

forest river yellow CCC weight sticker (on the screen door)
dry weight: 24,970
ccc: 3636

[tmmar]

Boo,
Did Forest River require you to empty your coach and get weights at all 4 corners before agreeing to do the upgrade? I just received an email from Randy and he said that is what I would need to do because all coaches were not affected.
thanks,
Tom

[boowho]

Originally Posted by Jersey Guy

My coach shows an Oct 2012 build date on the sticker in the cabinet above the cockpit. I have the 275 tires and it shows on the Freightliner sticker in that same cabinet a 19,000 lb rear axle ( I have the 360 hp and 3000 series Allison) and a 12,000 lb front axle. The FR sticker states different numbers, a 10,400 lb front axle. I'm inclined to go with the Freightliner numbers.

The 10410 limit is with the 255 tires and is the actual limit stamped on the tire multiplied by 2. 5205 is stamped on the tire when used as a single tire.

If used in pairs (dualies) the single tire max is 4805 (obviously multiplied by 2) giving 9610 per side or 19220 for left and right.

This is what I have now. After my upgrade I will have 12000 lbs on the front; not sure about the back.

My current limit on the back is 17500 and (I assume) is limited by the chassis itself, since the tires are safe/legal at 19220 as mentioned above.

If they get me up to 12000 on the front and 19000 on the back, I will be legal/safe/happy as I've already weighed my coach fully loaded and I have 18400 on the back and 11400 on the front(actual loaded weights on my coach from a truck stop scale).

Still, your stickers not agreeing seems "out of kilter" to me.

Boowho??

[tmmar]

Boo,
I guess you missed my post just above your last reply. Did Forest River require you to empty your coach and get weights at all 4 corners before agreeing to do the upgrade? I just received an email from Randy and he said that is what I would need to do because all coaches were not affected.
If not, what procedure did you need to follow to get approval for the work to be done.
Thanks.
Tom

[Phil57]

Tom they did require me to empty mine to get a empty weight. This weight issue effects the RB model the most.

[tmmar]

Phil,
Why would this be a problem with mostly the RB model? Wouldn't the weight issue be pretty much the same across all 390 models?
Thanks,
Tom

[Phil57]

Tom with the RB we have the extra half bath. That and the refrigerator up front may be the reason. Randy couldn't explain it but said it was mostly a RB issue. How over weight are you. If FR won't cover the cost with a 08 you are getting close to tire time. I have no idea how much the air bags would cost but it looks like a easy job for a shop to do. The upgrade is worth doing. I was fortunate to have them cover the cost.

[Hallen01]

Thanks to the coordinated efforts by Randy at Berkshire and Todd & Pat at FCCC Oasis Service Center, I'll soon be back in Gaffney for the front suspension warranty work on my 390RB (I just returned to NJ from Camp Freightliner and the first year maintenance performed in Gaffney). I'll have to say that Berkshire and Freightliner Custom Chassis are class acts. There was no argument on Berkshire's part, but I had my problem well documented and made every attempt to lighten and redistribute the load since I first became aware of my 390RB front axle overload situation.

The six new tires having greater load capabilities will be the 275/80R22.5 LRG which I believe are the Michelin XZA3R + EVERTREADTM. FCCC Oasis service folks will pull the new tire rotations per mile figure off the Michelin tables, for readjustment of the speedometer, mileage computer, etc. From what I understand during the Camp Freightliner class, I would expect the Allison trans to relearn my driving patterns with the new slightly different torque vs. RPM demands that would result from the ~3.27% greater tire diameter.

It looks like my new cold tire pressures (corrected to a nominal departure time temperature of 70 deg F) will be 94 psi up front, and 76 psi in the rear, which correspond to GAWs* of 10,969 lbs in the front, and 17,427 lbs in the rear, which are the highest I would normally expect to encounter. The front end weights will now be well within the design capabilities of the bigger, replacement airbags up front, and the new 275 mm tires at all four corners. For those of you 390RB owners who are frustrated with an unsolvable front overload problem, the rear of the 390RB model typically stays within the rear GAWR, so this fix does not involve rear airbags, and I would expect the rear will still be rated at 17,500 lbs. I don't know whether the fix will involve a new GAWR rating placard, or if that is even a necessity. In the event of accident litigation, I would imagine that it would be pretty straightforward to prove that you had higher rated components factory installed (I keep all of my paperwork, scan it into my CPU and iPad, and download it onto my Freightliner 24/7 flash card, purchased at Camp Freightliner).

*The above weights were derived from my latest CAT scale ticket:
- 400 lbs combined driver and passenger (seated up front)
- full fuel
- half water (43 gal in all tanks combined)
- full LP (19.6 gal, 86 lbs)
- "typical" supplies, loaded toward rear
- two 22" x 90" slide trays, with an empty weight of 180 lbs ea
- TOAD hitch installed (TOAD on a separate portion of the scale), with half the hitch weight on the TOAD, and half on my chassis rear.

However, I typically run somewhat lighter, between 40 and 100% fuel capacity, 40 to 100% LP, 60% DEP, and 25% water which result in lower front axle loads, around 10,700 lbs or so. Looking at a bare chassis training aid at Camp Freightliner, it appeared the fuel tank weight distribution is ~80 front/20 rear, and the combined water tanks weight distribution is ~20 front/80 rear. At the tire inflations levels shown above, I won't be grossly overinflated, and won't get caught with low inflation on cooler days or when I am dry camping with 86 gal of water.

[boowho]

Originally Posted by tmmar

Boo,
I guess you missed my post just above your last reply. Did Forest River require you to empty your coach and get weights at all 4 corners before agreeing to do the upgrade? I just received an email from Randy and he said that is what I would need to do because all coaches were not affected.
If not, what procedure did you need to follow to get approval for the work to be done.
Thanks.
Tom

Tom, I specifically asked Randy about emptying the coach and he responded no. In a way, I'd like to get a true and accurate weight empty; in another way it'd be several hours of back breaking work to unload and then re-load everything.

I would think it's be in FR's best interest to weigh it completely empty to avoid potential disputes down the road (in case of of an accident). To that end I think they should stand the cost of a couple of strong-backed college kids to "hump" all the crap in and out.

Sorry, I didn't respond earlier; I must have missed your first request; it won't happen again!!!

boowho??

[edgewant]

My 2013 390RB-60 was done last month at Gaffney and Randy arranged it all once the people at Freightliner made him aware that I was over on the front. The tires I got are the XZE2. Not disappointed with the tires but would like to hear what model Hallen01 finally gets. Those weights are close to mine and with the XZE2s I'm running 100 up front and 86 in the back.

[tmmar]

Boo,
I guess that I will email Randy and as why the change in procedure in that I would need to empty my coach and get it weighed when he previously said it wasn't necessary for others to do the same.
Thanks.
Tom

[boowho]

Originally Posted by tmmar

Boo,
I guess that I will email Randy and as why the change in procedure in that I would need to empty my coach and get it weighed when he previously said it wasn't necessary for others to do the same.
Thanks.
Tom

Because you coach is not an rear bathroom model maybe?? Or because it's a bit older than the rest of us??

I dunno.....

Boy, I'll bet Randy is getting sick of dealing with this problem, eh??

[Hallen01]

Edgewant, I don't see your "XZE2" tires in the Michelin chart. What exact model designation is molded into the sidewall of your tire? I'd like to know specifically what that says.

I was told someone recently got the 80 profile G-range tire, which I was hoping to be the 275/80R22.5 LRG XZA3R + EVERTREADTM.

[tmmar]

Boo,
If this can be a safety issue, Randy better get used to hearing from many owners. If only by putting your as@ into the coach causes it to be overweight, then some one dropped the ball when these coaches were designed. Hopefully FR will make sure everyone is safe.
Tom

[boowho]

Originally Posted by tmmar

Boo,
If this can be a safety issue, Randy better get used to hearing from many owners. If only by putting your as@ into the coach causes it to be overweight, then some one dropped the ball when these coaches were designed. Hopefully FR will make sure everyone is safe.
Tom

Tom, I have no idea of the real facts, but have heard plenty of rumors/innuendo/etc.

I too believe if FR would refuse to correct such a problem no matter how old the coach is, they would be open to HUGE potential lawsuits.

Basically, this problem may possibly be considered a misrepresentation of facts (the yellow sticker) by FR whether accidental or willful.

And this is with something regulated by the federal govt (what isn't these days?).

I know of one individual that when he first brought the issue to their attention, received a rather cool reception. That's my understanding anyhow; I could have misunderstood what that person was saying. But FR did make it right.

Again, anything I've typed here, is strictly speculation on my part and not to be construed as anything even remotely resembling actual facts.

[tmmar]

Boo,
Hey- nothing but the facts maam (as said by Sgt Joe Friday) - LOL!!!

Just as a point of information- a poster (either here or another forum) stated that they had a problem with the fan hub assembly that held the engine cooling fan on their Freightliner engine. They said that the bolts that hold the hub (4 in the old version) were insufficient to hold the assembly to the block. They sheared off and caused the fan to go into the radiator causing all sorts of problems. Freightliner has an updated 5 bolt version that is supposed to correct the problem. I contacted Freightliner and asked that they rectify the situation before I had a problem on the road.
They of course said no. I contacted the DOT and New York State consumer protection agency and explained the situation and told them that there could be serious problems if the bolts failed and the fan went into the radiator. If I was travelling at 65 MPH on the highway and this problem occurred, no telling what could happen to my coach (shards flying around the engine compartment severing who know's what) as well as shards flying around outside my engine compartment, contacting other vehicles following me.
Well the NY State Dept of Consumer affairs contacted Freightliner. I, in turn, was contacted by the General Counsell for Daimler (who owns Freightliner), and guess what, they are going to fix the problem.
My point is, if it is a safety problem that could cause a serious situation, they will pay to take care of the problem rather than face a serious litigation predicament.
Tom

[Hallen01]

Originally Posted by boowho

I know of one individual that when he first brought the issue to their attention, received a rather cool reception. That's my understanding anyhow; I could have misunderstood what that person was saying. But FR did make it right.

Randy and I have been chatting about a number of things since I got my 390RB in March, including front axle overweight, but mostly minor "how to" questions, and he has been nothing but professional and friendly, including on the topic of FA overweight. Randy, Mitch, and Tom (parts dept) have all been very helpful.

I just hope Berkshire doesn't change the other stuff or drop the model, because now I think they've got it just right, and I had virtually no other problems.