Engine Will Not Crank

[I-RV]

Silver - Thanks' for the info. My starting problem has gotten even scarier. While with jacks down, I correlated the start problem with the leveling pad, since upon turning the key on within the first two seconds before the pad started squawking (lights and sound) the starter would engage.

However after lifting the jacks, I have gotten all jack lights out with ignition turned on, but once again the starter will only crank within the first two seconds. Although the leveler pad lights are all off, upon turning the ignition on, after two seconds a low sounding alert comes from the direction of the leveler pad (but not sure from pad).

Starting the engine with only like two cranks is like playing Russian Roulette. - Hank

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by silver

You may find this helpful also. The attached is the connections Equalizer makes to the Freightliner wiring.

This is an interesting document, it shows how the jacks retract if you attempt to drive away. However note none of the connections called out come even close to Freightliner terminals , these are all battery +at key switch "run" and the others are - battery terminals.
The document even contradicts the Equalizer Installation and Ops manual for the Forest River Diesel motorhomes. Can't be sure if this is a Equalizer or FR document and how old it is? The feature concerning preventing jacks down while running is handled differently in the install manual.

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by I-RV

Silver - Thanks' for the info. My starting problem has gotten even scarier. While with jacks down, I correlated the start problem with the leveling pad, since upon turning the key on within the first two seconds before the pad started squawking (lights and sound) the starter would engage.

However after lifting the jacks, I have gotten all jack lights out with ignition turned on, but once again the starter will only crank within the first two seconds. Although the leveler pad lights are all off, upon turning the ignition on, after two seconds a low sounding alert comes from the direction of the leveler pad (but not sure from pad).

Starting the engine with only like two cranks is like playing Russian Roulette. - Hank

I cannot locate anything else on the FL dwgs. to lead to the cause. I looked as best as possible for what can be causing the 2 sec operate and then cut out, there's nothing on the dwg that times out. I'm becoming convinced its in the starter circuit. Have you had a chance to record start voltage available and then during start? Also wondering about the air heaters (large load) for start. A call to 1-800 (Freightliner) is probably best at this point, As many who have reported here, I'm sure they are aware of it by now. Good luck-

Vince

[silver]

Originally Posted by VinceU

I cannot locate anything else on the FL dwgs. to lead to the cause. I looked as best as possible for what can be causing the 2 sec operate and then cut out, there's nothing on the dwg that times out. I'm becoming convinced its in the starter circuit. Have you had a chance to record start voltage available and then during start? Also wondering about the air heaters (large load) for start. A call to 1-800 (Freightliner) is probably best at this point, As many who have reported here, I'm sure they are aware of it by now. Good luck-

Vince

I to think it is in the start circuit as the Equalizer install manual does not show any connections that could cause this problem unless connected wrong.

[silver]

Originally Posted by VinceU

This is an interesting document, it shows how the jacks retract if you attempt to drive away. However note none of the connections called out come even close to Freightliner terminals , these are all battery +at key switch "run" and the others are - battery terminals.
The document even contradicts the Equalizer Installation and Ops manual for the Forest River Diesel motorhomes. Can't be sure if this is a Equalizer or FR document and how old it is? The feature concerning preventing jacks down while running is handled differently in the install manual.

This information came right out of the Equalizer installation manual on their web site today. Go look yourself. There are several and I looked through all until I found the information related to the controller connection to the coach. My point for posting is that I do not believe the jacks are the issue. An easy way to isolate the jacks from the problem would be to unscrew the control panel and unplug it as all connections are made to it. Just an Idea.

[I-RV]

Good call Silver, I will try this. - Hank

[silver]

Originally Posted by I-RV

Good call Silver, I will try this. - Hank

Another thought to isolate possible low battery problem. After you try the above, try starting the coach with the battery jumper switch on the dash pressed so you are using both coach and diesel batteries. Maybe your diesel batteries are just shot. I know coach is young but you do not know what happen to them prior to you getting it. Again just a thought and simple to do. The diesel preheaters take a lot of current while starting.

[I-RV]

Silver - I am aware of the low voltage due to the heaters and I get that sometimes. I rule this out, because after I start the engine and let it run say 15 minutes, I still cannot start it right after shut down. - Hanl

[Superchief]

Hi Guys, Just a short update. Presently on the road, and have found that if I push the key straight-in while in the off position twice (there is some play in the switch that allows it to be pushed in forward - almost like pumping it) and then turn the key to the start position, that it starts. Don't know how long this procedure will be successful.

Marty, I did ask Gaffney if the Techs will be at the FCOC Rally? The will be there but they don't know who yet. The Tech that looked at it in Madison gave me his card with his E-Mail address. I am going to E-Mail him some of the stuff that we have presented on this tread and see what he thinks and if he is headed to the FCOC Rally.


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[I-RV]

I had a long talk with Freightliner Help. They have records of this problem happening and attribute it to either corrosion in the 16 pin connector from the tranny or the Transmission Control Module. They say that the engine should not start when not in neutral and that a neutral start relay isn't working. The 16 pin connector is located somewhere near the tranny on the left side.

This signal and relay is shown in the attached wiring diagram. See note 5.

Looks like I'll be crawling around!
Ignition Wiring.pdf (142.3 KB, 18 views)

[Superchief]

Update: Presently at FR Gaffney. After 2 1/2 hours in the shop yesterday, they "determined" that the TCM (transmission control module) is bad. They had to order one, suppose to be here today. The explanation is that if you don't wait for the system to come on when you insert the key, it will start, but if you wait for the normal sequence when you insert the key, it has trouble realizing that it is in neutral, and will not start. We will have to wait and see once they replace the TCM. Will keep everyone updated. Craig


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[tmmar]

Craig,
Did they get to work on your coach early? I thought that you weren't scheduled until the 28th.
Hope that after they replace the module that your issues is resolved.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Superchief

Update: Presently at FR Gaffney. After 2 1/2 hours in the shop yesterday, they "determined" that the TCM (transmission control module) is bad. They had to order one, suppose to be here today. The explanation is that if you don't wait for the system to come on when you insert the key, it will start, but if you wait for the normal sequence when you insert the key, it has trouble realizing that it is in neutral, and will not start. We will have to wait and see once they replace the TCM. Will keep everyone updated. Craig


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Good news and certainly hope that's the fix. Did they warranty the part and labor?

[Superchief]

Hi Tom, They got me in early 😃 on the standby list, yesterday afternoon. Got to keep my spot in their "campground". Waiting for the part to show up...
Hi Phil, Appears it is covered 👍😍! It is one of those military "don't ask, don't tell" things.... Like you new digs!!!!

Craig


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[Mmnsc]

Craig
I hope that is the fix. Makes sense. Are you enjoying your visit to Gaffney. Did you take a plant tour while waiting. Pretty interesting. Good luck with the rest of your trip.
Marty


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[boowho]

Originally Posted by KennyGolub

I have always started the engine prior to pulling up the jacks.

Me too..... I can also start it with the slides out; in fact I can even DRIVE it with the slides out (don't ask me how I know this!!). However, I can not MOVE the slides in or out unless the the ignitions in the off position.

Boowho??

[jcowles3]

I too start on jacks then retract jacks


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[Superchief]

Update - TCM (Transmission Control Module) to be replaced. It is located near the motor in the back. They get to it from underneath. The problem appeared to be that the TCM was not seeing a neutral start signal when the key was inserted into the ignition. My Freightliner warranty would have covered it, but I am over in years. My extended warranty was approved, and they will cover it. TCM is $800 something and the labor is 2 hours to replace and another 1 1/2 hours of diagnostics time. Freightliner Gaffney Service Center is great!! Will be back on the road tomorrow after spending 5 days here. Have never seen so many Honda CRV's being toad (lol). Hope this information helps someone else! Craig


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[5456Mich]

Originally Posted by Superchief

Update - TCM (Transmission Control Module) to be replaced. It is located near the motor in the back. They get to it from underneath. The problem appeared to be that the TCM was not seeing a neutral start signal when the key was inserted into the ignition. My Freightliner warranty would have covered it, but I am over in years. My extended warranty was approved, and they will cover it. TCM is $800 something and the labor is 2 hours to replace and another 1 1/2 hours of diagnostics time. Freightliner Gaffney Service Center is great!! Will be back on the road tomorrow after spending 5 days here. Have never seen so many Honda CRV's being toad (lol). Hope this information helps someone else! Craig


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Hi Craig,

Do you have any idea what kind of sequence of events needs to be done to pull CRV 4 down ? I think that's what you pull, not sure if the new models are the same requirements as yours.

[tmmar]

Craig,
So, I guess that you have started the coach several times and it is working properly? Happy to hear that the problem seems to be corrected and you will be back travelling again.
Hope to see you and Sharon again real soon.