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Old 09-29-2015, 01:47 PM   #1
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Engine Will Not Crank

When turning the ignition on, all the appropriate displays illuminate, but it will not crank. Since the jacks are down, the leveling pad is blinking many lights as it probably should. I learned a trick to start the engine however, by turning the key very fast from off to the starting position. When doing so, the leveling pad doesn't come to life instantaneously, this gives a very short time for the engine to crank. Once the leveling lights come on; no cranking. Sometimes, I have to try multiple times. I suppose if I brought the jacks up, I would not have this problem.

This just started to happen. I always have been able to start the engine with the jacks down in the past. Any ideas? - Hank
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:02 PM   #2
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Hank have you tried turning the power off at the jack panel? Just wondering if that would help. I honestly have never tried cranking up while my jacks were down.


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Old 09-29-2015, 09:01 PM   #3
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Hank I must not understand. I always start the motor with the jacks down. Always have. I can't start with slides out but jacks are no problem.



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Old 09-29-2015, 09:48 PM   #4
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Hank, I believe I have the same issue as you. If I turn the key to the right, nothing happens. If I then turn the key completely left and then right again, I get contact and it will start. Sometimes it takes me 2 or 3 times doing this to get it to engage. I recently had a Freightliner Tech look at it while I was at the FMCA Rally in Madison in July. He said he had never seen this before or heard of it happening. He was going to replace the ignition switch, but they only had the old style in the parts truck. I am having it replaced in the next couple of weeks when I pass through Gaffney. The only upside to the issue, is if someone gets ahold of my keys to steal my unit, they won't be able to figure out how to start it. When I recently had it serviced locally by a Freightliner Shop near me, they were amazed at how I got it started. They said they had also never seen it or heard about it. Craig


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Old 09-29-2015, 11:54 PM   #5
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Superchief,
I have the same problem that you have for the past year. I replaced the ignition switch and it did not resolve the starting problem. Please post the results of your Gaffney visit.
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Old 09-30-2015, 10:17 AM   #6
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Thanks, Craig and Pat. X2 to keeping us posted on your Gaffney visit, Craig. For others, when the ignition is on, the power button on the jack pad does not work.

Also, for years while I have the MH on jacks and in storage, I have previously been able to routinely start the engine to keep the engine lubricated and batteries charged. - Hank
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:27 AM   #7
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I have always started the engine prior to pulling up the jacks.
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:27 AM   #8
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Pat & Craig - I am not sure that replacing the ignition switch will solve the problem.

As we all know, we do not have access to FR electrical wiring diagrams or schematics[ for which they may not have any either. However, Freightliner does provide wiring diagrams for the chassis, engine, transmission interface. The dash and steering wheel are Freightliner's.

I have attaché a wiring diagram for the ignition, which shows the ignition switch and starter relay. Note that there is a Starter Disable coming from the Instrument Cluster. I will need to research this further.

FR should only interface with the chassis via the Vehicle Interface connectors (see attachment). However, I would be skeptical about this and wouldn't be surprised if FR doesn't sneak some wiring directly from the leveling control pad to the ignition - LOL.

Hopefully, some of you electrical wizards can decipher the wiring. - Hank
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ignition Wiring.pdf (142.3 KB, 64 views)
File Type: pdf Wiring - Vehicle Interface.pdf (37.2 KB, 44 views)
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:42 AM   #9
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Thanks Hank! Appointment at Freightliner Gaffney is October 28th. Will be sure to update then. Craig


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Old 10-03-2015, 09:23 AM   #10
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Thanks Hank! Appointment at Freightliner Gaffney is October 28th. Will be sure to update then. Craig


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Craig - One further piece of the clue is the attached "Wiring - Drvr Info Module". In the upper left hand corner is C2 which goes to the Starter Disable. I do not understand where it connects within the Instrument Cluster, however.

Armed with this info., Gaffney should be steered in the right direction, rather then just saying "Let's change the ignition switch and see what it does" - Dah! A great thing at Gaffney is that the Freightliner plant is right there and they can consult with their plant if needed. Wishing you success onn the 28th. - Hank
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Wiring - Drvr Info Module.pdf (126.1 KB, 27 views)
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Old 10-03-2015, 10:08 AM   #11
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Hi Craig
I see you have an appointment in Gaffney on October 28 but since you/we are going to the Freightliner Rally in NC they are supposed to have the tech reps at the rally. Try to pick their brains and get them thinking about your issue before your appintment in Gaffney. I am afraid that when you get to gaffney they will not have they will not have the time to diagnosis and fix an intermittent problem. Just food for thought. Still in Africa but coming home tomorrow.
See you in 2 weeks
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Old 10-03-2015, 10:14 AM   #12
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Marty,
Do you know what type of work will the Techs at the rally do? Will they do routine maintenance work like replacing fuel filters, etc?
Hope you had a great trip.
Safe travels home and see you soon.
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Old 10-03-2015, 10:31 AM   #13
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Tom
As far as I know they will have technical seminars and Q&A. I do not think they will do any actual work other than give advise.

Great trip see you soon
Marty


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Old 10-03-2015, 03:43 PM   #14
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Marty I'm very relieved to hear from you. I thought maybe a Lion got you.



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Old 10-03-2015, 04:55 PM   #15
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Pat & Craig - I am not sure that replacing the ignition switch will solve the problem.

As we all know, we do not have access to FR electrical wiring diagrams or schematics[ for which they may not have any either. However, Freightliner does provide wiring diagrams for the chassis, engine, transmission interface. The dash and steering wheel are Freightliner's.

I have attaché a wiring diagram for the ignition, which shows the ignition switch and starter relay. Note that there is a Starter Disable coming from the Instrument Cluster. I will need to research this further.

FR should only interface with the chassis via the Vehicle Interface connectors (see attachment). However, I would be skeptical about this and wouldn't be surprised if FR doesn't sneak some wiring directly from the leveling control threepad to the ignition - LOL.


Hopefully, some of you electrical wizards can decipher the wiring. - Hank

Not sure if much help but from what I can see based on the 3 attached drawings one shows a start lockout if not in neutral, another shows a start lockout if engine is running >500 RPM and the last indicates a input to the dash lamp display. There is no leveling system inhibits indicated. I believe the start failures are within the start circuits, seems intermittent but looks like a couple different relays are involved.


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Old 10-03-2015, 06:50 PM   #16
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Not sure if much help but from what I can see based on the 3 attached drawings one shows a start lockout if not in neutral, another shows a start lockout if engine is running >500 RPM and the last indicates a input to the dash lamp display. There is no leveling system inhibits indicated. I believe the start failures are within the start circuits, seems intermittent but looks like a couple different relays are involved.


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The wiring diagrams are Freightliner's for the chassis. FR's wiring is not shown and no telling what they have tied into the wiring.

My problem is the same as Craig's and I do not consider it intermittent When I turn the ignition switch on, the leveler control pad starts squawking after a second or two. When it is doing its squawking the engine starter will not turn over. However, if the ignition switch is turned from off to start engine very fast, the engine will crank only during the short period that the leveler squawking is off and once the leveler squawking starts; no engine crank. Most times, the engine will not start because it did not turn over enough times.

This is not intermittent, since it happens all the time. It is only common sense, that the leveling pad has some control over engine starting. - Hank
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:08 PM   #17
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The wiring diagrams are Freightliner's for the chassis. FR's wiring is not shown and no telling what they have tied into the wiring.

My problem is the same as Craig's and I do not consider it intermittent When I turn the ignition switch on, the leveler control pad starts squawking after a second or two. When it is doing its squawking the engine starter will not turn over. However, if the ignition switch is turned from off to start engine very fast, the engine will crank only during the short period that the leveler squawking is off and once the leveler squawking starts; no engine crank. Most times, the engine will not start because it did not turn over enough times.

This is not intermittent, since it happens all the time. It is only common sense, that the leveling pad has some control over engine starting. - Hank

Just trying to help, You asked for someone to interpret the three drawings. That was done, others on this thread stated they start their engines on the jacks. Another stated the jack problem just started, years of normal operation. It's obvious its not built in by design.

Lippert system should initialize with turning the key to "on", but not turn on. The heaters in the air inlet energize and will pull down starter battery voltage quite a bit. Perhaps this is driving the Lippert panel crazy. Seems the Lippert system will auto retract if the trans leaves "N", and engine running but should have no tie to the starter. Another current thread reports the trans to go into lockdown when I ign turned to on. Intermittent was a poor choice, AFU is more like it.

I feel your pain, I'm not guessing, been in FL, 450HP Cummins with Lippert jacks for a few years now. Ford w/ Lippert before that.


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Old 10-04-2015, 02:11 AM   #18
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Marty I'm very relieved to hear from you. I thought maybe a Lion got you.

Phil
I am safe but we did see a lion pride eating an elephant. I guess they just liked the larger pickins.
Marty


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Old 10-04-2015, 07:07 AM   #19
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Great valued input VinceU! - Hank
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Old 10-04-2015, 09:53 AM   #20
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You may find this helpful also. The attached is the connections Equalizer makes to the Freightliner wiring.
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