LP Detector Issue

[smo99]

Hi Folks,

I have a 2008 Berk 390-QS

I went over to the hanger to check on my RV after a month. The LP was turned off, but the sensor in the coach was beeping away when we got there--not sure how long it was going off, but my best guess is weeks.

There was no LP smell in the coach, again it was turned off at the tank.

I've had a hard time getting the gas turned back on in the past...I had to turn the detector on and off a bunch of times to get the gas flowing past it.

This time however, it just wont let the gas turn on. As I flip it off (for the millionth time), I get some gas coming out at the stove for an instant, but then it goes away (had the wife holding a lit candle lighter next to the burner).

I'm simply not sure if this is the shut-off valve gone bad or the detector? Is there a way to tell which is causing the issue?

And last question, will the newer LP/CO detectors work with the shut-off the same way as the old LP only detector?

Thanks!
Mark...

[dan-nickie]

After 10 years is probably time for a new detector.

[edgewant]

They have a 5 year life. They’re programmed to give you a few weeks of grace period then they absolutely need to be replaced. Don’t know if The newer ones will work with older shutoff.

[Jshgator]

We have 2015-40RBXL and ours lasted two years and started doing what yours is doing,
Problem is with mine was that I had to purchase the inside replacement panel along with the solenoid that goes outside by LP tank. They only are sold in sets. Make sure you get the one that connects to the solenoid, there are several models, I found our replacement on EBay

[NO3putt]

We ended up replacing the LP detector and silonid at the same time. Skip

[dan-nickie]

I've been told the only place to get the sensor without the solenoid is directly from Forest River.

[smo99]

Hi Folks,
I just completed the install of my new LP Sensor and Shutoff Solenoid in my 2008 Berkshire. It was not all that hard, but the wiring was clear as mud--shame on MTI Industries for not covering older models with 2 wire setups in their docs. I'm posting this, because it would have saved me hours of time and nervous wondering...

First, the old company is out of business that made those sensors. MTI Industries is about the only choice.

Second, YES, you have to buy the "KIT" that has the new Shutoff Solenoid down on the LP Tank. The old solenoid ran on 9V which was cut down from 12V in the old switch. The new solenoid and switch uses 12V so the old solenoid is incompatible with the new switch.

Third, the old one had 3/8" fittings. The new Solenoid has 1/4", so you get to go to Depot and purchase a few fittings (see image). It generally takes some looking, but my little Depot had what I needed. You can reuse the 3/8" MIP-Flare elbow fitting to connect to the flex line. Get a 4" 3/8" brass nipple--it will move the solenoid far enough over that you can turn the entire setup without hitting the tank as it screws into the LP Regulator. Use Yellow pipe tape made for LP/Gas connections (do not use the white teflon tape--there's a difference). I also recommend getting a bottle of leak detection fluid to check your work--I had one leak--it happens--I needed an extra wrap of tape where the nipple went into the regulator.

One other thing--while MTI says they are a "direct fit" it is not. The new sensor is the same width, but the height is different. I used my oscillating multi-tool saw to cut the hole larger--you will have to cut the wood in the wall--not fun, but not impossible. Harbor Freight has OSMs for $20 btw--handy tool and you don't need a FEIN OSM.

The main issue I had (and this is the data I wished I had) was that my older unit simply has a Red and Yellow wire coming out of the wall to the sensor. The new sensor (and I got the LP/CO2 one--makes no diff) has four wires (Red, Black and two white). The instructions say to wire the Red and one white together to the positive (Red) wire. Black goes to Negative. and the other White is supposed to go to the negative of the solenoid. Heavy sigh. Well, there's two wires down below on the solenoid, but how to get through the harness? Through trial and error, I determined that you simply don't need the second white. The harness takes care of grounding the solenoid to the chassis. The Sensor is simply a switch that cuts power to the solenoid if it detects LP/CO2 (shuts off the supply of the stuff most likely creating the problem). You DO hook up the solenoid wires to each of the wires (in my case a white and yellow) down on the tank. The solenoid does not care which wire is + or -

I just clipped the bare end of the extra white wire off and capped it.

Thanks to another post from back in 2014, I also realized that unlike the old sensor which had an on/off switch, the new ones do not. These run off the Chassis batteries and if left on, will eventually drain the batteries if not plugged in. It's always sending power to the solenoid to keep the gas turned on as long as there's no LP/CO2 detected. So at the other poster's recommendation, I wired a simple rocker switch into the Red + line behind the wall. My 390QS has a small cupboard behind the bathroom. The pipes from the kitchen run under that area and you can lift out the floor of that cupboard and have free (not exactly easy) access to the wiring. The front panel (wood grain) riser face plate under the floor you just lifted out will push out (it was simply nailed in with a few finish nails). I took it home and used a 1/2" mortising drill to create a 1/2 x 1" hole for the simple rocker switch I picked up at the hardware store. Ran a little wire down to the red wire and placed the switch inline. I then just used four 1 1/4" drywall screws to hold the panel back in from the back (totally unseen). The switch resides behind the cupboard door. I put a label on it for future users. If you don't have a mortising drill, just drill two holes and use a woodworker's chisel to make the hole square. Find a local woodworker and he'll do it for you.

Hope this saves the next guy some time.

[Oscarvan]

Thank you for taking the time to write this up in detail. Screen shots made and properly filed..... Now if I can only remember I have it when the time comes.....

[Edward972]

SMO99, sent you a email asking a question.

[smo99]

Just a quick update:

First, someone asked what part number I ordered, here it is:
MTI Industry CO & Propane Alarm with Solenoid White 70-742-P-R-WT-KIT

Second, just returned from our first two week outing with the rig since install. Overall, it worked well, however, it seems this switch might have issues with power glitches/switch-over from battery to AC. It seems it powers off the solenoid (even though the green light is lit) from time to time. Sometimes in the morning, we'd go to turn on the water heater or the stove and get no gas--tuns out the solenoid was not getting power from the sensor. I flicked the inline power switch I installed and I heard a click in the sensor and viola, I had gas. I will ask MTI about this and update if I learn anything. If you have any thoughts, let me know.

[Gottawonder]

Very timely. My 2014 is flashing and beeping with the "End of Life" light pattern. Thanks for all the info!

[smo99]

Update #2:
Just spoke to MTI and found out the solenoid is supposed to be on the high pressure side of the setup (before the regulator!). I informed them I didn't recall reading that in the instructions...So I'm going to have to go back and re-jigger the setup on the rig. Probably what was happening is that this solenoid is geared at using some of the high pressure to hold it open--not a very good design IMHO...but it's all we have!

[dave-g]

Originally Posted by smo99

Update #2:
Just spoke to MTI and found out the solenoid is supposed to be on the high pressure side of the setup (before the regulator!). I informed them I didn't recall recall reading that in the instructions...So I'm going to have to go back and re-jigger the setup on the rig. Probably what was happening is that this solenoid is geared at using some of the high pressure to hold it open--not a very good design IMHO...but it's all we have!

So many solenoids are what we call pilot operated- meaning the electric opens a small port- then the gas pressure actually opens the valve, by putting pressure on a diaphragm. I was concerned about you reducing the size of the valve-That it would not flow the same amount of gas, but being the new one is high pressure- that should be fine.
great write up.

[smo99]

Just updating my original diagram to show the new shut-off solenoid which MTI says needs to be on the high pressure side of the the regulator (unlike the original way it came from the factory with the old manufacturer). Doing this requires less new brass (should only require one new nipple).

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by dave-g

So many solenoids are what we call pilot operated- meaning the electric opens a small port- then the gas pressure actually opens the valve, by putting pressure on a diaphragm.

That's how the pneumatic valves on my airplane operate: "Electrically controlled, pneumatically operated" Interesting to see the same thing here.

[smo99]

One other issue I have with the MTI is that this valve requires 12 volts to operate. The old one required 9. Since this valve (at least on my older 2008 Berk) runs off the chassis batteries (not the house batteries), 1. it can draw them down over time, 2. once they are below 12v, the valve will close. The old valve only requiring 9v meant that the batteries could be quite low and still keep your food fresh in the fridge when dry camping. I think I'm going to have to consider hooking up my battery tender so my chassis batteries stay topped off. I wish FR would chime in with these manufacturers and help them understand the ins and outs of why certain things were designed they way they were originally...I think we lost a good feature with the old 9v system.

[smo99]

Well folks, I don't know what to say...I've been trying to update this post/project and now I'm getting sorry I started it. Maybe one of you can help me. As I reported earlier, I thought I had figured out a work-around with my older 2008 coach and wiring, but then the shut-off solenoid was intermittently working. MTI told me it needed to be on the high pressure side--made sense. So I changed it over to that side (that's all I did). Then it wouldn't open at all. I had 12v inside at the detector and 12 volts down at the solenoid, but no gas. So they sent me a new kit. Same thing.

I then tested the solenoid with just a car battery...opened just fine...so I'm not getting enough power down to the solenoid. So I probably have to run a new wire from the detector down to the solenoid, because obviously, the harness isn't delivering the same power down that way.

But to make matters worse...

In the process, I must have managed to cross my 12v wires inside and blow a fuse--somewhere--I can't find it! I checked every fuse in the panel at the front of the coach--all good. But no power coming into the wires inside. Can anyone tell me if there's a hidden fuse somewhere near the coach batteries (not the house batteries)?? I'm about to yank the entire thing out, buy a plug in detector and just forget about the shut-off solenoid. Since I'm not sure my wiring was ever correct, I'm probably going to petition the FR powers to remove this entire thread unless I can figure out the wiring. Thanks!

[Gottawonder]

Good info above. Over the weekend I ordered dual alarm and solenoid kit from Camping World. The Brown ones were cheaper than black or white, and with their $15 0ff promo it dropped me down to $171.xx with tax.

https://www.campingworld.com/safe-t-...ne-alarm-brown

Today I called MTI because, despite the instructions in the manual, pressing the reset button did nothing to silence the unit. "Debbie" informed me that it wouldn't, and I'd need to cut the power to silence it. She then asked when I purchased the unit and I told her it was factory installed on a new coach. She asked the date of RV purchase (12/2013.) She then asked me to take a video of the red red green green flashing and send a copy of my RV purchase contract verifying it was less than five years, and she shipped a new unit (with solenoid) to me under warranty!!

So, the unit i ordered will be returned to my local Camping World, and the new unit will be on my porch on Weds and installed before the weekend.

She did mention the solenoid was to be installed on the high pressure side.

I had to scramble for parts and bypass my solenoid a year or so ago, so I'll build a new assembly with a new regulator, and keep my bypassed assembly for backup.

[tmmar]

The last couple of times that I went into my coach (it is on my driveway) the sensor was flashing red-red-green-green and was beeping. Is this the end of life signal for the sensor or could it be just an abberation? I am questioning this because if I press the reset button, the beeping stops and the unit goes back to displaying just the green light.

[Gottawonder]

Originally Posted by tmmar

The last couple of times that I went into my coach (it is on my driveway) the sensor was flashing red-red-green-green and was beeping. Is this the end of life signal for the sensor or could it be just an abberation? I am questioning this because if I press the reset button, the beeping stops and the unit goes back to displaying just the green light.

Per the manual, the reset button should silence the alarm for 3 days (up to 30 days.) . I don't know why mine didn't; my guess is that it had been beeping for 30 days (coach didn't get used this summer, sadly.) .

In light of my info above, if you purchased the coach less than 5 years ago, i would call Debbie at MTI and let her know the EOL is flashing on your 2014 coach. I purchased my coach 4 years and 9 months ago, and they just shipped me a brand new kit.

Gottawonder