New 2017 Berkshire XL - Two Issues

[zuckerburg]

Me and lots of other folks have working Atwood's and Gerard s.

[MartyQ]

Originally Posted by zuckerburg

Me and lots of other folks have working Atwood's and Gerard s.

Do you have an Atwood on-demand water heater? If so, would like to talk to you.

[gordonsick]

Originally Posted by zuckerburg

Me and lots of other folks have working Atwood's and Gerard s.

I agree with zuckerburg.

My Girard Gen II works fine after I installed a thermostatic shower valve. This fix is less expensive than swapping out the heater and repainting the cover. And, if it doesn't actually work, you get to have more comfortable showers with a temperature controlled (better than balanced) shower.

I've posted details at http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1335571

I've posted on this recently, and don't want to sound like a broken record, so I'll be quiet now.

–Gordon

[MartyQ]

Originally Posted by gordonsick

I agree with zuckerburg.

My Girard Gen II works fine after I installed a thermostatic shower valve. This fix is less expensive than swapping out the heater and repainting the cover. And, if it doesn't actually work, you get to have more comfortable showers with a temperature controlled (better than balanced) shower.

I've posted details at http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1335571

I've posted on this recently, and don't want to sound like a broken record, so I'll be quiet now.

–Gordon

I'm still looking for just one person that is happy with and got the Atwood on-demand water heater to work as advertised. Not one so far.

[zuckerburg]

Originally Posted by MartyQ

Do you have an Atwood on-demand water heater? If so, would like to talk to you.

Yes I do and mine works very well. PM anytime.

[AlexG]

I second that

I have an Atwood and after I installed thermostatic controls, it works great.

[hvstorck]

I third that. After installing TempAssure and new kitchen faucet, Atwood works great!

[uralman]

Originally Posted by mikey

Git rid of Atwood go for a Truma unit, you will not be sorry for the swap.
Atwood, Gerard, Surburban all are junk.

Not so. Our Gerard type 2 has worked fine for our 2015 Berklay 34qs.

[MartyQ]

Originally Posted by hvstorck

I third that. After installing TempAssure and new kitchen faucet, Atwood works great!

Have to make my request a bit more specific. I am still looking for someone that has an Atwood on-demand water hater that works AND DID NOT have to install a workaround (new thermostatic shower valve or had to pull the flow restictors from the installed FR stock shower valve, or other) or had to lower the temperature of the unit to only get lukewarm water. Will be visiting the factory in early October and I am still of the opinion, if FR cannot get the Atwood on-demand water heater to work WITHOUT a workaround of one sort of another, I'm going to ask for the Truma. We di a lot of dry camping, high flow rates are not desirable.

Paid quite a bit for this new 2017 Berkshire. Am I wrong here?

[dave-g]

I have intermittent problems with mine- too hot -too cold, I to like to dry camp- so leaving the shower run for the whole shower kills me ( with 5 people). Some days I miss my old 6 gallon gas/electric. 6- years never an unhappy shower.

I think adding a buffer tank like Oscar did would be the answer,( if I want to start and stop water flow) which is what Truma has built in.

[AlexG]

Marty,

On-demand water heaters are designed to work only with thermostatic controls. Truma is using internal reservoir as a work around. There is just no way you can get around your Atwood issues by modifying some magic settings.

[foretm]

Originally Posted by AlexG

Marty,



On-demand water heaters are designed to work only with thermostatic controls. Truma is using internal reservoir as a work around. There is just no way you can get around your Atwood issues by modifying some magic settings.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but if this is this case then why didn't FR install those thermostatic controls as standard equipment? They have acknowledged the issues and switched to Truma at the factory. Why wouldn't they just start installing the thermostatic controls?

Just wondering...

[AlexG]

$$?

Why would they have no quality control on their products? Why would they install broken parts with makeshift fixes?

Probably hoping that customer will not notice and / or learn to live with it I guess.

[gordonsick]

Originally Posted by foretm

I don't have a dog in this fight, but if this is this case then why didn't FR install those thermostatic controls as standard equipment? They have acknowledged the issues and switched to Truma at the factory. Why wouldn't they just start installing the thermostatic controls?

Just wondering...

Alex might have slightly overstated the need for a thermostatic shower valve. If you are hooked up to water and sewer and have lots of time to take a shower, you might get by with just patiently setting the hot and cold blend. But, the big issue is not to turn off the water while you are in the shower, since that changes the blend when the heater starts up.

But, if you want to turn off the water while you are in the shower, to conserve water, you need something a thermostatic shower valve to control the temperature swings caused by the heater going on and off.

Why isn't this automatically in our RVs? Beats me, because the OEM cost of something like a Delta Tempassure is likely less than $100 above the model that they supply.

Note that the shower valve is not the only item in our units that provides a challenge to dry campers: parasitic power drain from the TVs. small battery capacity on house battery bay (should be LC16s rather than GCs), water tanks that overflow before filling to the top, water tanks that won't drain to the bottom.

[Oscarvan]

There is no way a thermostatic valve can maintain, say, a 100ºF water stream when it's fed 50ºF water...... It cannot make it warmer than it's supply. Cold sandwiches are cold sandwiches and part and parcel of on demand systems.

The combination of long runs and flow/flame regulation issues is present in all of our units and some workaround is necessary.

For those that missed it, I installed a 7 gallon electric heater in line right before the manifold. I've taken about 50 showers and spent countless hours in the galley working the sink. It has worked as well, if not better than my sticks and bricks. Under $300

Details here: https://dragonship.blog/modifications/hot-water-system/

[gordonsick]

Oscar,

I agree that a flame that goes out randomly for significant periods of time will confound even a thermostatic shower valve. And, I've read claims from people that this happens.

The way to test this is to run the shower steadily while you watch the flame in the hot water heater. If it goes off randomly, then it would seem that you have a faulty heater that needs changing or repair. But, I wouldn't go to the expense and trouble of changing a heater unless I saw this happening.

Note that the Girards have an over-heat sensor that will turn off the heater and can cause problems. The solution is to turn down the temperature control for the Girard so that it doesn't overheat. Since I'm either in the North or in the South during winter, that isn't a real problem for me. I usually run it flat out or almost flat out.

My discussion cited earlier of my Tempassure faucet installation documents the temperature rise from my Girard. It delivers the advertised 60° to 70°F temperature gain. Since I don't start with freezing water, I get a lot more than 50°F from the water heater.

–Gordon

[Locomo14]

Originally Posted by matt58

I had this problem for a year with Atwood. It got too a point I was becoming good friends with Robert from Atwood. Long story short I finally got the Atwood out too Truma and will never look back. It has been great knowing now that when I turn the hot water it is going to work. I got sick of trying too make it work. You spend this much money you expect a hot shower or just hot water. I finally took it Elkhart IN factory to get it fix. I will say taking too Elkhart was the best thing I did because I got everything fix before warranty was up. I have a Berkshire 34qs

Hey Matt
I have a 2017 still under warranty. Did Forest River cover the cost to change out the Attwood for a Truma.

[MartyQ]

Originally Posted by Locomo14

Hey Matt
I have a 2017 still under warranty. Did Forest River cover the cost to change out the Attwood for a Truma.

Matt....
I have the same question.

[MartyQ]

Originally Posted by MartyQ

Did some additional troubleshooting today. Filled and drained the kitchen sink about 10 times. And THEN the sink would not drain. Checked the grey tank and it showed empty. Checked the black tank and it showed FULL. AND the toilet was bubbling. I may have a venting problem BUT AM SURE the kitchen sink is piped to the BLACK tank. Drained the black tank and the kitchen sink drained. EXACT same as described by Igave in his post in this thread. Called FR this morning. Hoping for a factory date soon.

Just back from Elkhart a few days ago. I must say, Mitch Wirt went out of his way to rectify about a dozen issues that were on my list. He is a real asset to Forest River and Berkshire Division. To refresh all, my two major issues were the performance of the Atwood water heater and the kitchen sink draining to the black water tank. The other issues were relatively minor and each was solved during our few days at the Berkshire facility.

With regard to the Atwood water, it is working, but, time will tell. There was a recall/part replacement that was not implemented when I purchased the unit in Mid-August that was contributing to my issue. The part was installed and the unit was adjusted by Atwood. The Atwood water heater is performing acceptably, but, as I mentioned, time will tell. I really need to test it during the summer months with a warmer fresh water supply.

With regard to the kitchen sink draining to the black water tank, Mitch indicated he had talked with the engineering folks and such is by design due to required drain pipe slope requirements. I do not have a venting problem. I asked if the black tank chemical action would be affected by soapy dish water. Mitch did not know. I also asked if the piping arrangement to the black water tank was isolated to my 2017 Berk XL 40A or if the same piping arrangement was implemented on the other 2017 XL models or the 2017.5 XL models. Mitch is to e-mail me with that answer.

IF YOU HAVE A 2017 or 2017.5 Berkshire XL (any model), PLEASE let me know if your kitchen sink is piped to the black water tank OR if your kitchen sink is piped to the gray water tank. Please include your model year and coach model. If you have ANY Berk, Berk XL or Berk XLT, and your kitchen sink is piped to black water tank, that info would be helpful to me. I'm trying to determine the extent of this piping arrangement. PLEASE PM me or reply via this thread.

Comments??

[Igave]

Our 2016 Berkshire xl 40A was plumbed into the black from the factory. Our hiccup with that was how quickly the black tank filled when boondocking. We had ours replumbed into the gray tank. The 2017 May be situated differently, particularly a different layout. We are glad we had it done.