Newmar vs Berkshire

[BamaBob]

Finally getting around to doing this...

I compared a fully optioned out Berk to a fully optioned out Newmar Ventana. MSRPs are almost identical, however, here are the key features found in the Ventana that are missing in the Berk:

• Manual Tilt and Telescope Steering Column with VIP Smart Wheel

• Recessed Fuel Fills with Crossover to Fill from Either Side

• Central Vacuum with Deluxe Tool Kit

• Hydronic Zone Heating System with Continuous Hot Water on 43’ Floorplans

• 3-15M Penguin Heat Pump Air Conditioner and Energy Management System*

• High Definition Wiring with Blu-Ray DVD Player

• Dash Radio with Touch Screen Navigation System

• Combination Desk/Dinette with Free Standing Hidden Leaf Table, Two Fixed/Two Folding Chairs

• Passenger Seat Work Station

• Queen Bed with Sleep Number Premier Air Mattress

• Power Rewind Reel with 50’ 50AMP Cord

• Energy Management System

• Painted Power Baggage Door Locks, Keyless Entrance Door with Touch Pad & Door Bell

• Floor Tile Extended into Bedroom Area

• Automatic Generator Start on Low Battery or Temperature Setting

• Solar Prep Wire From Roof to House Battery Compartment

• Convex Exterior Mirrors with Remote Control, Defrost and Turn Signals

• Large Storage Tray with Access from Either Side

• Large Storage Tray for second basement

• USB Charger at Dinette & Bedroom Night Stand

• Wireless Charging Mat Built into Dash

• Safe Located in Bedroom Wardrobe

• MCD Power Window Shades with Remote Control

• Mechanical Lock Arms on Slideout Rooms

• Egress Door in Rear Bathroom floorplan

• Carefree Window Awning

• Kitchen Window

[sherman12]

So does the comparison mean you'll be moving up to a Newmar from your Rockwood? One difference you didn't mention is I believe the Newmar also has hanging sidewalls too vs. laminate.

[accumack]

You are wrong about a number of things. We have tilt and telescope on the wheel I don't want the problems that come with a smart wheel. I fuel from right or left and the they are recessed. We have a computer desk for the passenger. i lot of the things you want are liabilities and I don't want any part of. if those are make or break go for it I myself like less complexity and I want o see you get one for what I can get a comparable Berk. Our's had a $230,000 list we got it for $149,000. tell me if you get that coach for anything near that price. I'm willing to give up some crap accessories for $81,000.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by sherman12

So does the comparison mean you'll be moving up to a Newmar from your Rockwood? One difference you didn't mention is I believe the Newmar also has hanging sidewalls too vs. laminate.

Nope Sherman...I am too much of a Forest River FanBoy to do that

I DO know that Berkshire reads the forums, so I am putting out the differences so they can see them and possibly include some of the more critical ones (like the escape door, Smart Wheel and Heated floor in the Bedroom) in a future version of the Berk.

If they know what we want, hopefully they will build it

[Campin Cajun]

Bob are you comparing the XLT to the Ventana?

[accumack]

You forgot the biggest difference. Support we have the best support in the industry bar none! Look at their problems and lack of support.

[tkdavis]

Bob...there are several items on your list that came standard on my 2015 Berk:

Manual Tilt and Telescope Steering Column (no VIP Smart Wheel)
Recessed Fuel Fills with Crossover to Fill from Either Side
Continuous Hot Water (Atwood Tankless)
Heat Pump Air Conditioner and Energy Management System*
High Definition Wiring with Blu-Ray DVD Player
Dash Radio with Touch Screen Navigation System
Passenger Seat Work Station
Full Size Queen Bed (No Select Comfort Mattress)
Energy Management System
Automatic Generator Start on Low Battery or Temperature Setting
Solar Prep Wire From Roof to House Battery Compartment
Convex Exterior Mirrors with Remote Control, Defrost (No Turn Signals)
Large Storage Tray with Access from Either Side
MCD Power Window Shades (on front window no Remote Control)
Kitchen Window

What did you use for your comparison?

Terry

[txredfish]

I owned a Newmar for 10 years. Great customer service before warranty expired and after warranty (when ordering parts). Had a couple of minor problems during warranty period. Door lock system broke after 2 years. Replaced no problem. City water inlet valve bad - replaced no issue. Cabinet door cracked after 6 months - replaced door no issue. After warranty expired - outside door assist handle cracked - replaced, no issue.
They stand behind their product. At that time it had a 3 year warranty. I am not sure if that has changed. I did have some Workhorse chassis issues but that was not Newmar related. But issues were fixed by Workhorse.

[accumack]

Newmar owners are having an over weight issue on the front axle and Newmar will not do anything about it. Some Berks have an issue with overweight on the front axle and they are taking care of it with no fight even out of warranty. I'll buy a Berk over a Newmar anytime due to the factory support.

[Campin Cajun]

Bob, it's going to be hard to do an apples to apples between FR & Newmar. You would have to break it down between the chassis and the house to be more comparable.

For instance, the XLT chassis is comparable to the Dutch Star,

While the XLT house is more comparable to the Ventana.

The XL Berks fall more inline with the Ventana LE, seeing as neither one has the tag and they both have pretty much the same engine and tranny.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by Campin Cajun

Bob are you comparing the XLT to the Ventana?

WUPPS!!! I goofed in one small area!!

I SHOULD have said: "I compared a fully optioned out Berk XLT"

Originally Posted by accumack

You are wrong about a number of things. We have tilt and telescope on the wheel I don't want the problems that come with a smart wheel. I fuel from right or left and the they are recessed. We have a computer desk for the passenger. i lot of the things you want are liabilities and I don't want any part of. if those are make or break go for it I myself like less complexity and I want o see you get one for what I can get a comparable Berk. Our's had a $230,000 list we got it for $149,000. tell me if you get that coach for anything near that price. I'm willing to give up some crap accessories for $81,000.

Point taken - I was comparing a Berkshire Tag Axel (XLT) to a Newmar Ventana - which Berkshire says they are going head to head with. I apologize that I did not make that clearer - this was a post from a discussion we were having in the 2016 Tag Axel Berk thread and I wanted it to have its own thread since I know Forest River reads the forum

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by tkdavis

Bob...there are several items on your list that came standard on my 2015 Berk:

Manual Tilt and Telescope Steering Column (no VIP Smart Wheel)
Recessed Fuel Fills with Crossover to Fill from Either Side
Continuous Hot Water (Atwood Tankless)
Heat Pump Air Conditioner and Energy Management System*
High Definition Wiring with Blu-Ray DVD Player
Dash Radio with Touch Screen Navigation System
Passenger Seat Work Station
Full Size Queen Bed (No Select Comfort Mattress)
Energy Management System
Automatic Generator Start on Low Battery or Temperature Setting
Solar Prep Wire From Roof to House Battery Compartment
Convex Exterior Mirrors with Remote Control, Defrost (No Turn Signals)
Large Storage Tray with Access from Either Side
MCD Power Window Shades (on front window no Remote Control)
Kitchen Window

What did you use for your comparison?

Terry,

Their web site.
The Queen Bed was a Sleep Number
The A/C - each A/C has a heat pump on the Newmar
The Slide out storage tray is in the 2nd Basement
The Power Window shades are on ALL windows
The dual fuel ports also have a DEF port

Thanks for correcting me on the others!

All I am doing here gang is pointing out to FR that if they want to go mano a mano feature with Newmar they have some work to do.

To me, the 2 Biggest deals are the heated floor to the bedroom (rear bath) and the VIP Smart Wheel. I could care less about power window shades

Now the second slide out tray would be nice!

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by Campin Cajun

Bob, it's going to be hard to do an apples to apples between FR & Newmar. You would have to break it down between the chassis and the house to be more comparable.

For instance, the XLT chassis is comparable to the Dutch Star,

While the XLT house is more comparable to the Ventana.

The XL Berks fall more inline with the Ventana LE, seeing as neither one has the tag and they both have pretty much the same engine and tranny.

OMG I LOVE the Calculus of MH comparison Kevin.

[tkdavis]

Originally Posted by BamaBob

To me, the 2 Biggest deals are the heated floor to the bedroom (rear bath) and the VIP Smart Wheel. I could care less about power window shades

I'm with you Bob, a lot of the things on the list are things I wouldn't need/want anyway. The Ventana was our #1 pick for an upgrade until we came across the Berk. The Berk fit our requirements perfectly and came in cheaper than the Ventana. We have put 7,000 miles on it in 6 months with only minor issues.

Thanks for the research you put in on the differences between the two!

Terry


Terry & Kim
2015 Forest River Berkshire 38RB
2007 Wrangler Unlimited

[RKNOLA]

Hey BamaBob,
The one MOST important thing you won't have if you buy a Newmar is all of your Berk Buddies!!!
And by the way, we have many of the items on your list in our 2016 38A! Believe me, we made the mistake of leaving Forest River when we bought our last MH. BIG mistake that cost us a fortune in the long run! We are glad we are back! We love our Berkshire!

Karen

[KennyGolub]

Originally Posted by tkdavis

Bob...there are several items on your list that came standard on my 2015 Berk:

Manual Tilt and Telescope Steering Column (no VIP Smart Wheel)
Recessed Fuel Fills with Crossover to Fill from Either Side
Continuous Hot Water (Atwood Tankless)
Heat Pump Air Conditioner and Energy Management System*
High Definition Wiring with Blu-Ray DVD Player
Dash Radio with Touch Screen Navigation System
Passenger Seat Work Station
Full Size Queen Bed (No Select Comfort Mattress)
Energy Management System
Automatic Generator Start on Low Battery or Temperature Setting
Solar Prep Wire From Roof to House Battery Compartment
Convex Exterior Mirrors with Remote Control, Defrost (No Turn Signals)
Large Storage Tray with Access from Either Side
MCD Power Window Shades (on front window no Remote Control)
Kitchen Window

What did you use for your comparison?

Terry

Most of the above are standard on my 2015.

I do not have a kitchen window. The bed is a king. My hot water is a Gerard 2. I'm not sure about the solar wiring.

Ken

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by RKNOLA

Hey BamaBob,
The one MOST important thing you won't have if you buy a Newmar is all of your Berk Buddies!!!

You got THAT right Karen!! Dunno what we would do without all y'all!

Originally Posted by RKNOLA

And by the way, we have many of the items on your list in our 2016 38A! Believe me, we made the mistake of leaving Forest River when we bought our last MH. BIG mistake that cost us a fortune in the long run! We are glad we are back! We love our Berkshire!

Karen,

Anne-Marie and I simply will NOT buy anything that is not made by Forest River! Even though I bill myself as a FR "FanBoy" it's more than that. We have toured several of the FR factories - both TT, 5er, TH and Class A. Everywhere we have been folks are friendly, hard working and committed to producing a quality product.

I was completely blown away at the manufacturing process at the Diesel division (we have toured Tiffin/Red Bay and Berk is better!) Everyone at the Diesel Division was focused on making the best damn Class A out there. Attention to details like gaskets in the sheet metal cutouts to prevent damage to wiring harnesses and tubing, putting neoprene strips between the floor and frame to minimize road vibration and 1 piece custom cut under flooring to prevent warping just scream quality.

As I have said before, I am posting the differences in the forum because I know the Diesel division reads the forums and some of the things the owner's want are just too difficult or expensive to add aftermarket. Thus, I keep pushing (and hoping )

If Berkshire would add the VIP Smart Wheel, the data closet with conduit to the roof for WiFi antennas and the like, and extend the heated floor to the whole coach, we'd be in heaven! I'm handy enough to put in a box macerator pump, a safe, and all the other add-ons on that list that make life easy

[RKNOLA]

Hi Bob,
I understand your reasoning. Hearing the wants and don't wants from owners is usually a valuable tool for most manufacturers. FR can be proud of their products, they are VERY well made! They could use our ownership record as a pat on the back!
FR Cherokee TT: owned for 5 years: in the shop once (due to Chinese tires)
FR Georgetown MH: owned for 3 years: in the shop once (leak at hydraulic line gasket)
"Another brand" MH: owned for 2 years: in the shop 6 times! List of problems: 2 pages long! Gave new meaning to the term SOB (some other brand). Sobbing is what you do everytime you have to lose camping time for in the shop time!

August 2015: came to senses. Ordered new Berkshire!

[CAT-RN]

Originally Posted by RKNOLA

Hi Bob,
I understand your reasoning. Hearing the wants and don't wants from owners is usually a valuable tool for most manufacturers. FR can be proud of their products, they are VERY well made! They could use our ownership record as a pat on the back!
FR Cherokee TT: owned for 5 years: in the shop once (due to Chinese tires)
FR Georgetown MH: owned for 3 years: in the shop once (leak at hydraulic line gasket)
"Another brand" MH: owned for 2 years: in the shop 6 times! List of problems: 2 pages long! Gave new meaning to the term SOB (some other brand).
August 2015: came to senses. Ordered new Berkshire!

Hey Karen. Why don't you really tell us what you thought of your Previous Thor. LMAO.

Well I've heard it !! Maybe you better not. Mod's edit about 2/3 of it. Ha.

Russell.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by RKNOLA

Hi Bob,
I understand your reasoning. Hearing the wants and don't wants from owners is usually a valuable tool for most manufacturers. FR can be proud of their products, they are VERY well made! They could use our ownership record as a pat on the back!
FR Cherokee TT: owned for 5 years: in the shop once (due to Chinese tires)
FR Georgetown MH: owned for 3 years: in the shop once (leak at hydraulic line gasket)
"Another brand" MH: owned for 2 years: in the shop 6 times! List of problems: 2 pages long! Gave new meaning to the term SOB (some other brand). Sobbing is what you do everytime you have to lose camping time for in the shop time!

August 2015: came to senses. Ordered new Berkshire!

I hear you Karen! FR builds good stuff (IDK what some of the posters say!)

• FR Surveyor TT - owned 5 years. In shop once to replace steps.
• FR Rockwood 5er - BR A/C replaced x2 (Not a FR fault); maint work done at Goshen and a *FREE* return trip to Goshen to replace some Delam & roof all at FR expense AND done in a 10 day turn-around.

THATS service! Really looking forward to our Berk!