Operating temperature......

[Oscarvan]

Aside from some interesting tidbits this is food for thought for those that "exercise" their engine when stored.

For reasons that will become known soon (surprise killer mod!) I ran the engine in place today.

Outside temp: 35ºF
Block heat on for 12 hours. initial engine temp 55º

After 35 !!!!! minutes at high idle (1200RPM) the engine had SLOWLY worked it's way to 145º. This is NOT operating temperature. So if you want to exercise your motor you need to take it for a ride, and not around the block. On the highway, 55+ for a half to an hour. THEN you get to operating temperature. There are a lot of people that will tell you that running it at anything less than that does more harm than good. Personally I am in the "no exercise" camp, however the caveat there is that mine will sit for three months at the most.

As an interesting aside, I monitored the temp on the LBCU. The analog gauge NEVER came alive...... I'll be on a road trip next week and then I'll see when the analog gauge actually comes off the peg.

[kenandterry]

My engine temperature observations and tests were never performed in anything as luxurious as your coach.

I drove school buses for many years. Up here in Canada, we know cold. The idea of warming the bus up before going on your route was determined to be a lost cause in fairly short time. If you wanted inside cabin heat from the engine making heat......you better get out on your route and work that baby.

Just shivering from thinking about those years 🥶

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by kenandterry

My engine temperature observations and tests were never performed in anything as luxurious as your coach.

I drove school buses for many years. Up here in Canada, we know cold. The idea of warming the bus up before going on your route was determined to be a lost cause in fairly short time. If you wanted inside cabin heat from the engine making heat......you better get out on your route and work that baby.

Just shivering from thinking about those years 🥶

Funny.... A lot of research landed me on forum pages for people operating and/or maintaining school buses. They've all pretty much gone to the Webasto style heaters, including block heaters. They now warm the fleet without idling, start up and go......

[omahagirl]

Really cold days mechanics would come and start them. I’d usually run my for about 10-15 minutes before beginning my route. Mostly to do my precheck pumping the air brakes down and waiting for their recovery checking lights three rounds needed to circle Brutus. Don’t miss those cold mornings

[kenandterry]

Originally Posted by omahagirl

Really cold days mechanics would come and start them. I’d usually run my for about 10-15 minutes before beginning my route. Mostly to do my precheck pumping the air brakes down and waiting for their recovery checking lights three rounds needed to circle Brutus. Don’t miss those cold mornings

Well omahagirl......

Up here in Canada our school busses are painted chrome yellow, have no guts, lots of windows, lots of flashing lights.

Yours down there in Virginia look amazingly like a Berkshire.
If mine had looked that cool, I’d still be driving my route

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by Oscarvan

Aside from some interesting tidbits this is food for thought for those that "exercise" their engine when stored.

For reasons that will become known soon (surprise killer mod!) I ran the engine in place today.

Outside temp: 35ºF
Block heat on for 12 hours. initial engine temp 55º

After 35 !!!!! minutes at high idle (1200RPM) the engine had SLOWLY worked it's way to 145º. This is NOT operating temperature. So if you want to exercise your motor you need to take it for a ride, and not around the block. On the highway, 55+ for a half to an hour. THEN you get to operating temperature. There are a lot of people that will tell you that running it at anything less than that does more harm than good. Personally I am in the "no exercise" camp, however the caveat there is that mine will sit for three months at the most.

As an interesting aside, I monitored the temp on the LBCU. The analog gauge NEVER came alive...... I'll be on a road trip next week and then I'll see when the analog gauge actually comes off the peg.

At work i maintain a fleet of diesel generators, two of them being 600KW and 800KW (1220 hp each). we start them monthly to cycle fuel and ensure that they do in fact start. in working with Cummins on a PM schedule, you are not really in any danger any way you do it. Ideally you want to get it to temp, but there is no real harm Idling it either. you are not doing any damage, but you are not using it as it was intended either.

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by IsleDog

At work i maintain a fleet of diesel generators, two of them being 600KW and 800KW (1220 hp each). we start them monthly to cycle fuel and ensure that they do in fact start. in working with Cummins on a PM schedule, you are not really in any danger any way you do it. Ideally you want to get it to temp, but there is no real harm Idling it either. you are not doing any damage, but you are not using it as it was intended either.

OK, interesting. Thank you. The argument brought forth against idling, especially below operating temp is "wet stacking", which in excess can wreak havoc with our emissions systems, and fuel bypassing rings and ending up in the oil affecting it's lubricity. More frequent oil changes will alleviate any negative impact of the latter. Does Cummins categorize you as "severe duty" or is the short period you run considered inconsequential?

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by Oscarvan

OK, interesting. Thank you. The argument brought forth against idling, especially below operating temp is "wet stacking". More frequent oil changes will alleviate any negative impact. Does Cummins categorize you as "severe duty" ?

our gensets are all permanent mounts. we brought up the concerns of wet stacking to our senior service tech. we were told that because our engines are fuel injected and computer controlled, wet stacking is a thing of the past. we put WAY less than 100 hours on our gensets for the year. oil changed once a year regardless of hours and coolant checked once as well. engines idle for cool down at 800 rpm and operate at 1800 rpm. unless loaded up, we never hit operating temps on our gensets either. block heaters set at about 120F and will reach 160ish running, no load.

[omahagirl]

Originally Posted by kenandterry

Well omahagirl......



Up here in Canada our school busses are painted chrome yellow, have no guts, lots of windows, lots of flashing lights.



Yours down there in Virginia look amazingly like a Berkshire.

If mine had looked that cool, I’d still be driving my route

Mine was a 2006 Thomas. One gorgeous morning waiting to pick up my first stop. Gotta enjoy

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by IsleDog

our gensets are all permanent mounts. we brought up the concerns of wet stacking to our senior service tech. we were told that because our engines are fuel injected and computer controlled, wet stacking is a thing of the past. we put WAY less than 100 hours on our gensets for the year. oil changed once a year regardless of hours and coolant checked once as well. engines idle for cool down at 800 rpm and operate at 1800 rpm. unless loaded up, we never hit operating temps on our gensets either. block heaters set at about 120F and will reach 160ish running, no load.

Interesting, and again thank you. Info like this coming from the commercial field in cooperation with the manufacturer is very valid. I am going to change my opinion.

[GoneSouth10]

Originally Posted by Oscarvan

I am going to change my opinion.

That statement right there just may make history on this forum!!

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by Oscarvan

Interesting, and again thank you. Info like this coming from the commercial field in cooperation with the manufacturer is very valid. I am going to change my opinion.

No problem, im just glad i could help. I figured that some of what we do is relevant to the RV market. You guys kind of get the run around when it comes to straight answers from the manufacturer.

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by GoneSouth10

That statement right there just may make history on this forum!!

Nope, it's happened before. And more than once have I said that I'm ready to be wrong as it is about WHAT is right, and not WHO is right. That said, I'm right a lot......

(Seriously, I don't know it all, but spend a LOT of time researching.....)

[GoneSouth10]

Originally Posted by Oscarvan

Nope, it's happened before. And more than once have I said that I'm ready to be wrong as it is about WHAT is right, and not WHO is right. That said, I'm right a lot......

(Seriously, I don't know it all, but spend a LOT of time researching.....)

[dave-g]

Two things-


1.I do sometime run MH 10 minutes or so( at high idle) if I can not take it for a ride- just to move the oil around. to stop internal rust



2, I have a Porsche 911, it is my only car with an oil temperature gauge, I see the coolant temp in the normal range In less than a 1 mile of driving- but the oil is not in the normal range for 10-15 miles depending on the temperature outside. ( car in heated garage)



Our MH engines weigh more than the complete 911 most likely, I bet the oil does not get up to temp for 20+ mile of driving maybe more.


Some day I would love to add an oil temp gauge to the MH.

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by dave-g

Two things-


1.I do sometime run MH 10 minutes or so( at high idle) if I can not take it for a ride- just to move the oil around. to stop internal rust



2, I have a Porsche 911, it is my only car with an oil temperature gauge, I see the coolant temp in the normal range In less than a 1 mile of driving- but the oil is not in the normal range for 10-15 miles depending on the temperature outside. ( car in heated garage)



Our MH engines weigh more than the complete 911 most likely, I bet the oil does not get up to temp for 20+ mile of driving maybe more.


Some day I would love to add an oil temp gauge to the MH.

with oil, there really is no reason to get it to temp other than to essentially boil off any moisture that accumulates. with frequent starts that do not boil off the moisture, you may see "pudding" under your oil fill cap. i have this happen on my gas pickup. driving for 30 min on the highway solves this.
you oil will still flow properly at very low temps (double digits below zero). just getting it pumped up on top of the engine and moving around is enough to mitigate storage issues. solutions include installing an external electric oil pump (look at aircraft) and manually priming the oiling system before startup and installing a heater to the oil pan. also, change your oil based on TIME and MILEAGE/HOURS OPERATED

as far as "operating temps" most people are referring to coolant temps. if the engine is not brought up to temp, the thermostat will not open, and you are not mixing the coolant in the block with coolant in the radiator, essentially "cooking" whats in the block. now your issue is when you check your coolant for proper performance, you are testing unmixed, un "cooked" coolant. so the stuff in the block may not have the same protections left in it. solutions include driving your motorhome to bring the block up to temp and open the thermostat and installing a block heater (block heaters are really just coolant heaters).

there is no real harm in doing any of this. we are told "doing something is ALWAYS better than doing NOTHING". change your fluids at their scheduled intervals and perform the proper maintenance and you will be fine.

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by dave-g

2, I have a Porsche 911, it is my only car with an oil temperature gauge, I see the coolant temp in the normal range In less than a 1 mile of driving- but the oil is not in the normal range for 10-15 miles depending on the temperature outside. ( car in heated garage)

That the early water cooled with the intermediate shaft bearing? I have a wild story to tell about that one....

And yes, Dave-g keeping fluids fresh is one of the best things you can do for your engine.