Potential purchase of a new 34QS - may be a bit long

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by Oscarvan

This. So lets say you run the thing 12 hours a day, 50 days a year.... (That's a LOT).

So, that's 600 hours a year.....

10,000 hours is not a stretch for a well maintained Onan, especially one that get used and doesn't sit......

That's almost 17 years.......

Run, Forrest, Run.

And...our 10KW Onan gets a lot better fuel consumption that that - I am estimating 1/2 Gal/HR under load and someone once told me that typical consumption is @ 1/3 GAL/Hr

Not that this should be the deciding factor - heck, we always have our Genset running when we are off Shore power - heating in the winter and cooling in the summer (the residential Refer is a blip on the energy consumption radar )

[mwmwall]

Just got a reply from Forest River on lower CCC on 2018. Dry weight increased because of added slide toppers, heavier Michelin tires, hardwood cabinet frames and hardwood slide fascia, some other misc. Stuff.

Mark

[mwmwall]

Just got a reply from Forest River on lower CCC on 2018. Dry weight increased because of added slide toppers, heavier Michelin tires, hardwood cabinet frames and hardwood slide fascia, some other misc. Stuff.

Mark

[gordonsick]

Hmm. That doesn't really explain it all. I've got the hardwood, and that is the heaviest part. I've got slide toppers, and they only added an aluminum front cover panel, which I imagine would weigh 30 to 40 pounds for the full set.

My coach was advertised with a maximum weight of 28,000 pounds and the yellow sticker comes to 22,976 + 4223 = 27,199. This is less than the 28,000 rating by approximately the weight of a full load of fuel and propane. So, I conjecture that they are leaving some headroom for that and the fact that the coach might not be evenly loaded.

But newer Berk 34QS owners say that their combined yellow sticker weight is even lower. But, the running gear, engine and transmission are equivalent, so ithe still max out at 28,000.

What does it add to on the yellow sticker you saw in the Berk?

What does it add to on the sticker in the Tiffin?

–cheers, Gordon

[mwmwall]

Hey Gordon,

Here is the first response from the Forest River factory when I inquired about the drop in CCC:

Hey buddy. So I had my engineer pull the entire weight history on the 34QS from when we first built them to the 2018 model year. There was never a CCC that was 4,000lbs plus. Depending on the options in the coach, if there was no slide tray or washer and dryer the CCC would obviously be higher. The highest that we saw on a 34QS was 3,400lbs roughly.

Then I sent them a copy of your sticker and here was the next response:

This unit was a 2015. I apologize for over stating that we have never built a 34QS with that much capacity. But there are justifiable reasons why it has decreased over the last 3 years, not from a 2017 to a 2018 though.

Since then we have added hardwood throughout (including the cabinet styles, the slide out fascia)

The Winegard satellite weighs more than the King Dome.

That coach has smaller Goodyear tires, the Michelin’s will be heavier.

We added slide out awning topper cases which adds weight.

Those are just a few major things that are going to add weight and with that being said depending on the specs of the unit it might not have been fully loaded.

So the brochure says the GVWR for a 2018 34QS is 27,910 and the sticker on what might have been my coach says the CCC is 3095 leaving a UVW of 24,815. I've asked the factory to clarify whether the UVW number includes a full fuel tank and propane. Waiting for an answer on that. The unit we were looking at was fully optioned with W/D, slide out tray in basement, FP, 32" TV in cockpit, and Traveler Sat,

In comparison the fully optioned 2017 33aa we just looked at had a 5,345 CCC.

Just my wife, dogs and water would weigh in at 1,250 and the tongue weight of my trailer (not towed often, just once in awhile) is another 750. Quickly erodes the CCC.

Mark

[gordonsick]

Mark,
Please keep us abreast of further information that they provide.

The dry weight would not include propane, since my propane tank was virgin and I had to go through the process of purging air from it.

I do have solid hardwood facings on all of my cabinets.

I have a the optional washer and dryer, which adds weight.

I have the optional sliding tray in the large storage bay, which adds weight.

I have a rough-in dome for the satellite, but not satellite dish (I wouldn't have gotten it, except that it was included in the coach that I bought.)

I just checked the Goodyear brochure and my Unisteel G670 RV 255/70R22.5 tires are supposed to weight 89 pounds each (total 540 lbs). I think that the new Berks have Michelin XRV 255/80R22.5 tires, which would have a slightly larger diameter, but it is hard to imagine that they would be any more than 25% heavier, because that would be a lot of unsprung weight. That would be about 130 pounds at most.

Also, I can't believe that the set of aluminum awning topper cases weigh 100 lbs. I've got some on order and I'll know that soon.

So, I'm not sure how it is that the new coaches have so much more dry weight.

–Gordon

[Oscarvan]

I often wonder about the accuracy of the scales at the various manufacturers. I am sure there is no certification for them.

I wouldn't put it past ANY manufacturer to get a shoe in with a new model by fuzzing the numbers and making them look better than they are.

[gordonsick]

Oscar,
The weigh scale that I use for loading my RV is provided by the Government of Alberta. They recommend that trucks use it, so I think it would be pretty accurate. This way, a trucker can check his vehicle when leaving town to see if the loadmaster fooled him. Our Government weigh scales are free. But, I think the government can force trucks to use them if they want, since they have signs and beams to check when trucks go by.

But, there may be reason to be confident about the weigh scales at the manufacturing plant, which are used for the yellow sticker, unless the yellow sticker has some legal significance for its certification. It may have significance, because it does include the VIN number of the vehicle.

Most RVs seem to have the yellow sticker, so somebody mandates its presence. What group is that and what sort of certification do they require? Does somebody in this forum know the answer?

–cheers, Gordon

[Oscarvan]

Yup, guvernment scales are pretty accurate. So are CAT scales here in US. I was talking about suspecting manufacturers of being "generous" with their CCC's....

The stickers are NHTSA required....

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-20...sec571-110.pdf

[mwmwall]

Here is the latest reply from FR factory:

"UVW is calculated with a full tank of diesel fuel. We do not factor in propane weight. You are looking at roughly 104lbs for a full tank of propane. Let me know if you have any other questions I can help with."

Gordon, I sent them your response indicating that your unit was very similarly equipped the the 2018 I was looking at and the reasons they had supplied did not explain the differences between your CCC of 4,223 and the 2018's of 3,095.

I'm waiting further response. Talking to my dealer, the factory isn't wavering from the accuracy of the 3,095 CCC but hasn't provided us with a solid explanation of the differences yet either.

So, after I load up my wife and myself, the dogs, water, propane and the occasional trailer with a tongue weight of 725, I have 974 for other stuff assuming I'm not overloading any one of the 4 corners or either axle.

Mark

[gordonsick]

Mark,
The discrepancy is odd, for sure. Maybe they measured my Berk with no diesel fuel in it. I think that is about 700 lbs.

If you could encourage the dogs to sit on the other side of your MH from your wife, I think you would be well balanced from side to side. (Your wife has to stop cuddling the dogs!) So, you are unlikely to have trouble with the corner weights if you meet the yellow sticker capacity. My coach is pretty well balanced from side to side, because the diesel and water tanks go completely from one side to the other.

And, taking a full load of water is optional. I only carry a full load of water if I anticipate a problem getting fresh water at the next campsite. I normally only carry enough for roadside potty breaks. So, if you are towing a trailer with 725 lbs of tongue weight, you could shed some water.

Also, note that the Berks based on the 38 foot chassis have the same running gear as the 34QS, so the maximum axle loadings are the same. But they have to carry an extra 4 feet of chassis and body work plus the fittings that go into that extra 4 feet. Those are the guys who often complain about having a limited cargo capacity.

I think you can live nicely with the 34QS configuration.

[mwmwall]

Hey Gordon,

Just got this from FR on differences between 2015 and 2018 34QRS:

Please read the below email which tells many of the changes that were made which helps to change the wait a bit. What Tim forgot to mention was that the pocket doors are actually solid now to instead of the hollow doors that we used before also.


-------- Original message --------
From: Tim Cunningham <tcunningham@forestriverinc.com>
Date: 4/18/17 9:05 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: "Chad Rothrock "Your Rv Guy"" <chad@totalvaluerv.com>
Subject: RE: RE: Fwd: RE: RE: Fwd: RE: Ccc on 34qs

This customer has 2015 which has a “shaker” style door, it is not the same door we are using today. We switched to the Berkshire doors in 2016. This customer also has vinyl wrapped cabinet fronts. We switched to all solid hardwood. Essentially the 2015 had light, vinyl wrapped cabinet doors and cabinet fronts. We switched to all solid hardwood cabinet doors and cabinet fronts.

We now have solid hardwood slide-out fascia, 2015 did not have that. It looks like it, but it’s a vinyl wrapped material.

I have included an image to verify. There is hundreds of pounds added in the change to hardwood.

If you look at the furniture it has changed. The booth is bulkier today with a wraparound back, that adds more weight. The sofa is different. We now have a tri fold bed vs the old style, that adds more weight.

We reinforced the steps in the entry way when we changed to the new style in 2018. That adds weight.

We added fiberglass to the bottom of the slide outs. Adding more weight.

There is an increase in weight to the chassis from Freightliner when they added the V-Ride rear suspension because the amount of steel that had to be installed to reinforce that area.

The scale is 100% accurate, Georgetown and FR3 often use it as well. The computer is able to factor in the weight of the propane as well so he is wrong to say that we did not add that in.

The Winegard satellite vs the King Dome is a lot heavier.

There is a 10” dash radio now, that adds weight.

Ultimately the unit being compared is 2015. We have made modifications to the Berkshire since we brought out the first 2015 to a 2018. Adding steel backers in the sidewalls and so on. You are looking at changes here and there. Those changes add up overtime. We are not lying or misleading, we simply have continue to develop the product since its conception.

[gordonsick]

Interesting. I suspect they are telling the truth, but it is amazing that all those things add up to 1000 lbs.

At just over 3000lbs, you do have a big CCC. What was the Tiffin rated at?

–cheers Gordon

[mwmwall]

The Tiffin 33aa was 5,345.

[gordonsick]

Originally Posted by mwmwall

The Tiffin 33aa was 5,345.

That's interesting.

On the one hand, we have lots of evidence that the two CCC's may be measured differently, since we see variations within one brand of how they measure things, particularly the Berk sticker you found with a negative CCC.

On the other hand, the dry weight of a Berk could be higher, and then you have to wonder if that weight goes to things that are important to you. That is hard to figure out, without going through all the specs of all the parts in great detail.

–Gordon

[BamaBob]

Sheesh...it's getting to where you have to go Tag just to haul the wife kiddies and furbabies around

[Oscarvan]

Originally Posted by BamaBob

Sheesh...it's getting to where you have to go Tag just to haul the wife kiddies and furbabies around

Is it better over there? More bus too.

[mwmwall]

Just got a call back from the dealer who has the 2015 34QS with the anti-gravity option that resulted in a OCCC of 27,000 pounds. He called the factory and got the correct OCCC which is 4,600 pounds. Much more in line with Gordon's 2015. They are issuing him a new tag.

Mark

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by Oscarvan

Is it better over there? More bus too.

Oscar,

TBH, yes. When we got weighed at Goshen last year by the RVSEV, we were 2K below weight - and we were stuffed to the gills for fulltime with full tanks all around. That tag axel is an impressive weight multiplier!

[RKNOLA]

Originally Posted by BamaBob

Oscar,

TBH, yes. When we got weighed at Goshen last year by the RVSEV, we were 2K below weight - and we were stuffed to the gills for fulltime with full tanks all around. That tag axel is an impressive weight multiplier!

"impressive weight multiplier"????
Sounds like the food in New Orleans!!