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Old 08-17-2015, 02:17 PM   #21
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I have said this before in response to these questions: We ( FR buyers) are part of the problem. If we refused to buy FR products until quality improved, it would improve quickly. They are selling everyone they can produce. What is their motivation to change anything?

Who's products would you buy that would be any better?

Rich
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Old 08-17-2015, 02:23 PM   #22
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In my line of work I have had exposure to a few thousand employees over the years and have run into very few that don't want to do a good job. Employees are typically a lot smarter than their bosses give them credit for. If you tell an employee to go punch the time clock, work hard for eight hours, don't say anything, and then go home you aren't going to end up with a quality product. If you ask that same employee to look for ways to make the product better and faster and listen to what they say you have a lot better chance at quality.
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Old 08-17-2015, 03:02 PM   #23
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In my line of work I have had exposure to a few thousand employees over the years and have run into very few that don't want to do a good job. Employees are typically a lot smarter than their bosses give them credit for. If you tell an employee to go punch the time clock, work hard for eight hours, don't say anything, and then go home you aren't going to end up with a quality product. If you ask that same employee to look for ways to make the product better and faster and listen to what they say you have a lot better chance at quality.
Good insight in my opinion....
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Old 08-17-2015, 03:07 PM   #24
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I have said this before in response to these questions: We ( FR buyers) are part of the problem. If we refused to buy FR products until quality improved, it would improve quickly. They are selling everyone they can produce. What is their motivation to change anything?
The other problem like in my case when I bought my new 5er a year ago. I've had tents, pop-ups and TTs. I had a 97 model TT Mobile Scout 33' i bought used in 2000, in all those years I didn't have one issue with it except I replaced the brakes and tires once and replacing a pee trap that froze and broke.
I had never bought a new RV before and didn't think ahead enough to know they have issues of pooop for craftsmanship. So we shopped for 6 months trying to find a large unit that wasn't gear toward kids and sleeps 8 plus people. We are 2 with a little dog and just want a big rig for 2. We found our 42' Columbus and loved the floor plan so we bought it. Now I can fix most anything electrical, mechanical, plumbing ect... So the farthest from my mind was expecting to fix this thing out of the box, its new not used. I didn't get a PDI to speak of and didn't know anything about a PDI. My fault, I also didn't know they weren't set up like car dealers and want to make you happy after the sell, they don't care I found out and they are shade tree repair people Jack's of no trade let alone professional technicians. I had to work on our 5er for about 3 weeks every evening to correct the factory pooop. We love it now.
I found out just how sorry these dealers are after I returned my RV the very next morning after purchase and they fixed nothing but said they did and tested it several time. Shady bunch of folks they are for sure.
I'm sure if I was close to the FR factory they could taken care of all and any issues because they are professionals.
I would feel confident FR at the factory will make it right but not at there trusty dealers way out of state. if I was retired and had the time I'd travel there 1200 miles to FR factory for any repairs. I wished I could have went to this last rally in Indiana but couldn't.

I know exactly how you feel OP and wish you the best I hope factory reps look at it and fix it properly. Our rig wasn't a low end unit either and we did expect better.
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Old 08-17-2015, 03:10 PM   #25
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At Lockheed where I worked, every job had written work instructions of which probably 90% were written by the employees. The thought is that the employee knows better than anyone how to do his job. Managements job is to allow them to do it and furnish the tools to accomplish it in a timely manner.
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Old 08-17-2015, 03:44 PM   #26
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Who's products would you buy that would be any better?

Rich
All it would take is one manufacturer of rv's, not the high end rigs, but the rv's for us everyday people, to turn out a reasonably priced, quality built rig. One that was built to a quality standard, and not to fill a quota for the day. One where the workers who were building it were told to take a bit of extra time and effort to do it right.
That manufacturer would set a standard that sooner or later the others would have to meet.
For something like that to happen would require a screeching halt of all sales of new units by prospective buyers.
But as we all know, buyers of new rigs are always wearing the "blinders" and only see the "new glitz n glamor" of that new rv their looking at.
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Old 08-17-2015, 03:59 PM   #27
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.........This new generation (not all) their work ethics and pride in workmanship isn't there....... .
Poor workmanship and lack of effective quality has always been missing in the RV industry.
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Old 08-17-2015, 04:47 PM   #28
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Cool

I you want another example of shoddy unprofessional workmanship, have a look under your coach or trailer frame sometime.

There you will see a 'rat's-nest' of undressed poorly secured and exposed wiring hanging down and loose from your frame here and there. If you drive in any area with marginal ground clearance, some of that wiring will surely get ripped out by catching on rocks or other ground objects. Should one suffer from a 'tire bomb', those tire fragments will rip out some of that loose wiring as actually did happen to a friend. Really now, how much more cost would be incurred by the addition of a couple dozen 'tie-wraps to secure the wiring'?

Detroit suffered from poor automotive quality in the 70's while the Japanese steadily hammered Detroit with superior quality automotive vehicles. If RV manufacturers here continue producing poor quality products, might they experience the same competition from another country or someone more attuned to quality? It's not ALWAYS about $$$$$.
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Old 08-17-2015, 05:08 PM   #29
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X3 to the last three posts. However besides the screws why the lack of design? There is a lot of force on the pulleys when operating. Since the pulley is raised on the plate, the force causes the plate to be like a pry bar; one side of the plate is held to the wood, while the other side is being pried up. Beside using proper screws, there need to be solid wood (not particle board) or metal that the pulleys attaches to.
That's the best question. Perhaps someone was supposed to use Wood screws and grabbed the wrong box or decided he didn't wasn't to switch tools. Self tapping screws are actually more expensive so cost really should be the factor.
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Old 08-17-2015, 06:57 PM   #30
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In my line of work I have had exposure to a few thousand employees over the years and have run into very few that don't want to do a good job. Employees are typically a lot smarter than their bosses give them credit for. If you tell an employee to go punch the time clock, work hard for eight hours, don't say anything, and then go home you aren't going to end up with a quality product. If you ask that same employee to look for ways to make the product better and faster and listen to what they say you have a lot better chance at quality.
That's very true, when you empower the employees and make them part of the solution, instead of treating them robots, you will get more from them. It's called ownership!
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