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Old 08-17-2015, 09:24 AM   #1
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Quality and Workmanship is CR@P!

I am tired of posting negative things on this forum, but unfortunately I have not enough good things to say about this product. Since I have had this coach, other than storage days, I have had 21 operational days and 28 non operational due to being broke down and in for repair. This just does not add up. I am retired and have spent a lot of money for something I cannot enjoy, causing my DW and me much grief and frustration (myself, I am just angry). These are not just working out the so called "bugs", these are issues of lack of quality and workmanship!
Attached is a photo of the latest built in obsolescence that happened yesterday upon retracting the dinette slide.
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:50 AM   #2
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Sorry to hear about your problems. We all know how frustrating this can be. Have you brought your issues to the dealership or the factory?

Rich
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Old 08-17-2015, 09:56 AM   #3
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I am tired of posting negative things on this forum, but unfortunately I have not enough good things to say about this product. Since I have had this coach, other than storage days, I have had 21 operational days and 28 non operational due to being broke down and in for repair. This just does not add up. I am retired and have spent a lot of money for something I cannot enjoy, causing my DW and me much grief and frustration (myself, I am just angry). These are not just working out the so called "bugs", these are issues of lack of quality and workmanship!
Attached is a photo of the latest built in obsolescence that happened yesterday upon retracting the dinette slide.
I can understand your frustration, but I would fill them old wholes up and re screw it together myself. You know as we all do it will take 4 weeks for a dealer to. Try some wood glue and wood dolls then screw it back in and forget the dealer, they are mostly all the same. Also you will still have your unit that you paid good money for....
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:11 AM   #4
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Also replace the sheet metal screws the factory used with regular wood screws. Wouldn't hurt to squirt some Gorilla glue in the new screw holes either.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:13 AM   #5
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If that is wood why are they using self-tapping metal screws? These are not designed to hold in wood, especially partial board.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:17 AM   #6
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If that is wood why are they using self-tapping metal screws? These are not designed to hold in wood, especially partial board.
Hex head magnetic drivers are easier to use than regular screws. Not good, but fast.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:27 AM   #7
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Hex head magnetic drivers are easier to use than regular screws. Not good, but fast.
that and using self tapping screws eliminates the need to drill a pilot hole to prevent wood cracking..... sooo lazy are they. It would have made far more sense to use self drilling finishing wood screws.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:36 AM   #8
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Sorry to hear about your problems. We all know how frustrating this can be. Have you brought your issues to the dealership or the factory?

Rich
Yes, they know about it all and of course have approved of and had the warranty work performed. Now for this latest issue , I sent an email to Randy Houser and followed up with a call to Mike Bucowski. Mike agreed that my coach has more and bigger issues than most and I am now waiting for a call back from them.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:38 AM   #9
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X3 to the last three posts. However besides the screws why the lack of design? There is a lot of force on the pulleys when operating. Since the pulley is raised on the plate, the force causes the plate to be like a pry bar; one side of the plate is held to the wood, while the other side is being pried up. Beside using proper screws, there need to be solid wood (not particle board) or metal that the pulleys attaches to.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:43 AM   #10
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Best solution would be to "thru bolt" with machine screws and countersink the heads if necessary for clearance.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:45 AM   #11
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They are self tapping sheet metal screws, then there should be a metal backing plate in that wall. They probably missed the metal, otherwise it should not have pulled out like that. As far as just screwing in back in the wall...do you realize how much tension there is from the cables? I can't even push it hard enough to get the bracket flat much less back in its place. Not only that, but now the cables are not in sync and the slide in not level anymore. The cables are what bring it out and in evenly.
Additionally, this is under warranty and I am not going hammer fist something back in place and make it worse.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:48 AM   #12
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Yes, they know about it all and of course have approved of and had the warranty work performed. Now for this latest issue , I sent an email to Randy Houser and followed up with a call to Mike Bucowski. Mike agreed that my coach has more and bigger issues than most and I am now waiting for a call back from them.
I've always taken my coach to the factory for repairs since I am only an hour away. I've pretty much dealt with Randy, and he has always fixed my problems. After attending this years FROG rally for the first time, I am convinced that this is a company that is willing to do what it takes to make the customer happy. I also agree with the others that it seems like a poor design for holding those pulleys. Hang in there.


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Old 08-17-2015, 10:50 AM   #13
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They are self tapping sheet metal screws, then there should be a metal backing plate in that wall. They probably missed the metal, otherwise it should not have pulled out like that. As far as just screwing in back in the wall...do you realize how much tension there is from the cables? I can't even push it hard enough to get the bracket flat much less back in its place. Not only that, but now the cables are not in sync and the slide in not level anymore. The cables are what bring it out and in evenly.
Additionally, this is under warranty and I am not going hammer fist something back in place and make it worse.
I doubt VERY much there is a metal plate on the other side. If there were, the self drilling point would be sticking out and there doesn't look like there is any clearance plus the screws are not long enough to completely penetrate the particle board.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:56 AM   #14
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What, you expected quality for your 6 figure motor home? Their put togather with the same disreguard and lack of quality control as their cheapest trailer. You'd LIKE to think your getting your money's worth by stepping up to a higher end rig, but their put togather by the same hourly workers who are overseen by the same quality control people who do a great job of letting cr-p, oh, I ment poo, out of the factory.
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:09 AM   #15
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I've always taken my coach to the factory for repairs since I am only an hour away. I've pretty much dealt with Randy, and he has always fixed my problems. After attending this years FROG rally for the first time, I am convinced that this is a company that is willing to do what it takes to make the customer happy. I also agree with the others that it seems like a poor design for holding those pulleys. Hang in there.


Rich
I also have had great customer service from Randy and Mike. The problem is, that makes the company reactive instead of proactive and then it puts the inconvenience on the consumer with a product that is intended to be used on the road and not sitting idle.
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:38 AM   #16
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I also have had great customer service from Randy and Mike. The problem is, that makes the company reactive instead of proactive and then it puts the inconvenience on the consumer with a product that is intended to be used on the road and not sitting idle.
Can't disagree with that. As has been discussed on other various threads, this is an industry wide issue. It reminds me of what the U S auto industry was doing in the 60's and 70's. It took competition from outside of the country to give us the quality autos that we have today. I don't believe that the quality of Forest River products is any worse than any other competitor right now. I've always heard of how well Tiffin owners are treated at Red Bay. But the fact that they are going to Red Bay for service means that they too have problems that need fixing. Unfortunately, there are no simple fixes to the problem, but I hope your issues get sorted out so that you can start enjoying that beautiful coach.


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Old 08-17-2015, 12:12 PM   #17
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I agree with Rich, it's the whole industry. And like he said Tiffin coaches cost way more than Berks, their comparable coach is the Red line of coaches. They are more expensive and the construction is worse than the Berk. Just as a comparison, Red Bay has probably 200 or more campsites at the factory where owners go for weeks at a time to get things repaired.

If I had extra money I would open a FHU campground in Red Bay, AL and I would make a fortune.

How many camping spots are at the FR Diesel factory?
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:14 PM   #18
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When I bought my new trailer a couple years ago I was amazed by all the things wrong with it. Some were design errors and some were just sloppy workmanship. I asked my dealer if high end trailers were any better and he said no.

The quality of the trailer reminds me of my local Ford dealer in the early 70's. When he got new cars in the first thing he did was adjust the timing and the carburetor so they would run decent. Then they went to the body shop to get the doors, hood, and trunk aligned.

I retired over a decade ago as a manufacturing efficiency expert and this problem is usually caused by top management striving for cost reduction and higher production rates which can drastically reduce quality. Management does not realize it is a whole lot cheaper to build the product right the first time. Think of the advantage the sales department could have with a truly well built product.

Maybe someday top management will read some books by Dr Deming or others and learn why so many trailers have so many problems.
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Old 08-17-2015, 12:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by tnbendr View Post
I am tired of posting negative things on this forum, but unfortunately I have not enough good things to say about this product. Since I have had this coach, other than storage days, I have had 21 operational days and 28 non operational due to being broke down and in for repair. This just does not add up. I am retired and have spent a lot of money for something I cannot enjoy, causing my DW and me much grief and frustration (myself, I am just angry). These are not just working out the so called "bugs", these are issues of lack of quality and workmanship!
Attached is a photo of the latest built in obsolescence that happened yesterday upon retracting the dinette slide.
I think a lot of this is because of the people they hire. This new generation (not all) their work ethics and pride in workmanship isn't there. If I were a boss in todays world the first thing leave your phones in your locker or leave in the car.
We pay big bucks for a RV to use not finish the company's mistakes. Or start repairing them first trip out.
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Old 08-17-2015, 01:14 PM   #20
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I have said this before in response to these questions: We ( FR buyers) are part of the problem. If we refused to buy FR products until quality improved, it would improve quickly. They are selling everyone they can produce. What is their motivation to change anything?
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