Sheared Fan Hub Bolts revisited

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by tmmar

Boo,
As far as I know, it is the bolts that hold the fan to the engine block. That is why there was a concern about the need to drill and tap a 5th hole on the block.

I am confused as to how a fan would work bolted to the engine block rather than to a water pump hub.

[Phil57]

[boowho]

Originally Posted by tmmar

Boo,
As far as I know, it is the bolts that hold the fan to the engine block. That is why there was a concern about the need to drill and tap a 5th hole on the block.

Phil, if (as Tom's reply indicates) the bolts in question are the ones holding the hub to the block, then a routine visual inspection may not be possible. In the pics posted so far, I don't see them.

Old Coot, I'm with you. There has to be a water pump in there somewhere.

Boowho?? (the old dog on a bone)

[boowho]

Just sent this off to FCCC customer service. Awaiting reply.


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Please advise whether or not the issue address by Technical Service Bulletin SF-388A-F has been addressed with a permanent fix on my chassis (VIN XXXXXX).

There are many reports on the Internet of problems being reported (and recalls being issued) on some Horton hubs.

These reports have also referenced other manufactures e.g. Peterbilt and Kenworth.

I would like some assurance by FCCC (preferably in a paper letter signed by a senior CS manager (or vice president) that my chassis is not affected by this issue.

Also on the Internet are (in some motor home owners forums) messages from owners in which the Horton hub or it's attachment failed causing major catastrophic damage. Repair costs have been stated to be as high as $7,000.

Obviously, this is something I would want to avoid.

Please respond ASAP.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boowho??

[speedmerchant]

Originally Posted by tmmar

Boo,
As far as I know, it is the bolts that hold the fan to the engine block. That is why there was a concern about the need to drill and tap a 5th hole on the block.

To clarify for all.....there is a machined bracket that has the pulley for the serpentine belt pressed on to it. This bolts to the engine block and it is this unit that is the problem area. It is NOT the bolts that hold the shaft for the clutch fan that are visible in the picture above. The pulley that is shown above is attached to a bracket that is fastened to the block by 4 bolts. This is the problem area. Bolts either back out from vibration and then shear, or shear from the torque placed on it or in my case one bolt sheared and then the entire bracket broke in half (cracked). The upgraded bracket uses a 5th hole that is already in the block that is being utilized to hold a bracket for the wiring harness. It is the identical size and length to the others. The dealer just relocates the wiring support (tie wraps it to something else). There is also part numbers for the bolts and washers to be used as well.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by speedmerchant

To clarify for all.....there is a machined bracket that has the pulley for the serpentine belt pressed on to it. This bolts to the engine block and it is this unit that is the problem area. It is NOT the bolts that hold the shaft for the clutch fan that are visible in the picture above. The pulley that is shown above is attached to a bracket that is fastened to the block by 4 bolts. This is the problem area. Bolts either back out from vibration and then shear, or shear from the torque placed on it or in my case one bolt sheared and then the entire bracket broke in half (cracked). The upgraded bracket uses a 5th hole that is already in the block that is being utilized to hold a bracket for the wiring harness. It is the identical size and length to the others. The dealer just relocates the wiring support (tie wraps it to something else). There is also part numbers for the bolts and washers to be used as well.

Well that clarifies things. I thought it was the 4 bolts on the hub itself. Thanks for that info.

[boowho]

These are two responses to my two emails to FCCC about the fan bolt issue.

One message states that my hub is furnished by Cummins. Yet, SOMETHING in that area is plainly market HORTON. Maybe Horton supplied only the clutch??

OK so what do you all think?

Boowho??

------------------ Response One ------------------------------------



Bill,
If there are ever any recalls, we here at Freightliner Custom chassis would
issue a recall notice and you would have been sent one to your address.
There are no recalls on your unit. Please see attached

Sincerely,
David York
FCCC Representative

Attachments
(See attached file: CDA Recall Letter.doc.zip)

------------------ Response Two ----------------------------------


Dear Bill,
I see that David York has already provided you a "No Recall" letter and I
wanted to expand on your questions and the previous replies you have
received from Rhonda.

1. Your unit was NOT built with a Freightliner installed fan hub, and thus
is NOT the style of fan hub that you have been reading about on the
Internet or talking to friends about, in regards to going from a 4-bolt to
a 5-bolt set-up. Your unit has a Cummins fan hub, that FCCC installed the
fan clutch to, and ultimately installed the fan to this fan clutch.

2. There are NO known issues with YOUR fan set-up in regards to what you
are describing with the 4-bolt versus a 5-bolt set-up. This is NOT to say
that FCCC is guaranteeing you that you will never have a fan, or a fan
clutch, or a Cummins fan hub failure in the future, but only stating there
is NOT a known issue with your unit that will be addressed by FCCC outside
of your normal FCCC warranty period that has expired as of 8/1/14.

3. You can certainly retain this e-mail for your records, as to what FCCC's
stance is concerning the fan set-up on your unit, BA7897.

Sincerely,
John Michaels Sr
FCCC Senior Service/Parts Representative

[15berkxl]

Who's Bill lol ok so you have one piece of the puzzle although in those emails are they saying they have had issues with clutches when installed by FLCC? But I guess that is secondary to your question.
Now I would send a similar email to Cummin's giving them the serial number of your engine and see what they say.


Wayne

[I-RV]

Boo - This section of the reply to you from Michaels has several clues,,,

1. Your unit was NOT built with a Freightliner installed fan hub, and thus
is NOT the style of fan hub that you have been reading about on the
Internet or talking to friends about, in regards to going from a 4-bolt to
a 5-bolt set-up. Your unit has a Cummins fan hub, that FCCC installed the
fan clutch to, and ultimately installed the fan to this fan clutch.

2. There are NO known issues with YOUR fan set-up in regards to what you
are describing with the 4-bolt versus a 5-bolt set-up

To me it says:

a) Your unit has a Cummins Fan Hub, installed by FL and is not the one involved with the 4 vs 5 bolt controversy.

b) Your unit was NOT built with a Freightliner installed fan hub Okay, you are clear Boo, but this indicates that the FL hubs may have problems and this brings up what the rest of us have -LOL
Hank

[15berkxl]

I don't disagree with Hank except now the rest of us have to worry about what we have thanks Hank.
I still would send an email to Cummin's just to close that part out.


Wayne

[boowho]

Originally Posted by I-RV

Boo - This section of the reply to you from Michaels has several clues,,,

1. Your unit was NOT built with a Freightliner installed fan hub, and thus
is NOT the style of fan hub that you have been reading about on the
Internet or talking to friends about, in regards to going from a 4-bolt to
a 5-bolt set-up. Your unit has a Cummins fan hub, that FCCC installed the
fan clutch to, and ultimately installed the fan to this fan clutch.

2. There are NO known issues with YOUR fan set-up in regards to what you
are describing with the 4-bolt versus a 5-bolt set-up

To me it says:

a) Your unit has a Cummins Fan Hub, installed by FL and is not the one involved with the 4 vs 5 bolt controversy.

b) Your unit was NOT built with a Freightliner installed fan hub Okay, you are clear Boo, but this indicates that the FL hubs may have problems and this brings up what the rest of us have -LOL
Hank

Seems to me it also says (or implies) that the engine was delivered to them (FCCC) with the fan hub already installed.

At any rate, it appears that I am out of the woods, but I will certainly save these emails. If my hub ever breaks, and I can prove these statements were incorrect (I do indeed have the problem hub) then it would only add fuel to the fire in a product liability lawsuit.

In no way am I saying the they are lying to me; in fact I feel quite confident that I've wrestled this bear to the ground. But since it take no effort at all to save the messages, why shouldn't I?

And yes, I may just contact Cummins with my S/N and hear their side of the story (just for fun).

Hank, I'd say others may need to find out at what point FL made the switch over from the troublesome hub to the new (Cummins) hub in order to know if their unit is vulnerable.

Boowho??

P.S. Just got another email from John Michaels regarding the Horton tag I found back there. As I suspected (after reading his response in my previous message) the hub is supplied by Cummins and only the clutch is supplied by Horton.

This being the case, I may still have warranty available on my 5 year engine and transmission warranty (should my hub actually fail). It's good until mid-next year.

[accumack]

Boo, I'm guessing that I'm ok as well as my unit was built 4 before yours.

[boowho]

Originally Posted by accumack

Boo, I'm guessing that I'm ok as well as my unit was built 4 before yours.

I would certainly think so. Phil as well, since he and I are 6 numbers apart.

Boowho??

[Berkshire Driver]

see this cute little trolly here well not to give away any age here but back in 80 something this was the pride and joy of the big city nearby and our diesel shop got the wonderful task of maintaining these all 8 of them only during the warranty period. anyway they all had a recurring problem the air compressor mount bracket would break right at the block, dang what luck, BUT, there was a access panel over the engine below the coin machine and near the driver oh boy easy hu NO WAY to get cover off took 1.3 hrs then r & r the bracket 3 plus! had to do it blind or have a compact mirror, anyway all 8 did the same thing over and over FUN. so point is engineers in automotive don't even imagine anything will ever break so lets build a body around the chassis with no easy access after all it looks good Doesn't it?just wanted to get some cheer about this dang fan stuff.Oh forgot this had the Detroit 8.2 turbo diesel engine

[accumack]

Originally Posted by boowho

I would certainly think so. Phil as well, since he and I are 6 numbers apart.

Boowho??

Is Phil's before or after yours?

[silver]

Originally Posted by boowho

Just sent this off to FCCC customer service. Awaiting reply.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Please advise whether or not the issue address by Technical Service Bulletin SF-388A-F has been addressed with a permanent fix on my chassis (VIN XXXXXX).

There are many reports on the Internet of problems being reported (and recalls being issued) on some Horton hubs.

These reports have also referenced other manufactures e.g. Peterbilt and Kenworth.

I would like some assurance by FCCC (preferably in a paper letter signed by a senior CS manager (or vice president) that my chassis is not affected by this issue.

Also on the Internet are (in some motor home owners forums) messages from owners in which the Horton hub or it's attachment failed causing major catastrophic damage. Repair costs have been stated to be as high as $7,000.

Obviously, this is something I would want to avoid.

Please respond ASAP.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boowho??

Hi Boo,

Will you share the address and to who's attention you sent your letter to? I would like to follow up on my 2007 chassis.

Thanks

[boowho]

Originally Posted by silver

Hi Boo,

Will you share the address and to who's attention you sent your letter to? I would like to follow up on my 2007 chassis.

Thanks

fcccservice@daimler.com

There are several CS reps, but John Michaels is the one that seemed to know the most. Good Luck!

Boowho??

[boowho]

Originally Posted by accumack

Is Phil's before or after yours?

Can't remember. My last two digits are 97.

Boowho??

[Phil57]

Boo my vin is BB1722.
Manufacturers date is Nov 2010.

[boowho]

Originally Posted by Phil57

Boo my vin is BB1722.
Manufacturers date is Nov 2010.

OK, mine is BA7897 How did we determine that we were 6 numbers difference? I can't remember, but thought we figured that out a coupla years ago.

Boowho??

EDIT: Maybe it was the Forest River serials we were comparing??