Sheared Fan Hub Bolts revisited

[boowho]

Originally Posted by 5456Mich

Yeah not sure that I'd fit up there, but I was thinking possibly with a mirror or I have a Dewalt Inspection camera that should get it.

Per the pics I posted, it's easily view-able from above if you remove the door from inside the coach.

Boowho??

[5456Mich]

Originally Posted by boowho

Per the pics I posted, it's easily view-able from above if you remove the door from inside the coach.

Boowho??

I saw that but then I'd want to start cleaning the engine and that would be just another can of worms.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by boowho

Electric fans may not be the best for towing. They apparently they do not move nearly the volume of air that the stock fan moves. Like maybe half at best??

Boowho??

Funny, they have more blades and cool millions of vehicles daily. Some vehicles have dual electric fans. Just where is the data that they move only "half at best"?

[AquaMan]

The problem with an electric fan is, that you are not moving the fan blade with a 340hp motor. They simply don't move the volume of air that is necessary for a diesel pusher.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

[boowho]

Originally Posted by I-RV

I agree with you Wayne. Be careful there, Boo!

Yeah, you guys are right. Looking at is one thing, screwing it up completely is another. I'd pretty much decided to step back anyhow. Will be interesting to read the response to my email to FL CS tomorrow.

I'd think that email would be good enough to be written proof of what was determined.

Tom was successful in getting his repaired with the help of New Your state having his back, IIRC.

Boowho??

[jmgllt]

Originally Posted by boowho

Per the pics I posted, it's easily view-able from above if you remove the door from inside the coach.



Boowho??

Where are the pictures?

[accumack]

Originally Posted by AquaMan

The problem with an electric fan is, that you are not moving the fan blade with a 340hp motor. They simply don't move the volume of air that is necessary for a diesel pusher.


Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

These are for trucks.
Electric Fan Engineering : Cooling Fans : Truck Electric Fans

[I-RV]

Originally Posted by jmgllt

Where are the pictures?

The pictures are at......
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...l-92795-7.html

[boowho]

Originally Posted by I-RV

The pictures are at......
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...l-92795-7.html

Thanks Hank..... I'm not sure if I could have found them back myself.

Boowho??

[hsvjim]

I have a Berkshire on a 2007 Freightliner Chassis. In 2013 my rig started to heat up and I had it towed to a Diesel Repair shop. I had not heard about the bolt problem. I thought the serpentine belt had broken. The shop took the floor out and found the fan hanging by one bolt and two sheared of bolts were somewhere. They are the metric equivalent to 5/16" fine thread. I think they are either Metric 8mm or 10mm and a 13mm wrench fits them. Seems mighty small to hold a fan assembly that big. I attached a picture of the bolts. Notice they broke at different lengths and the washer is a plain flat washer. I called the Freightliner hot line and the fellow immediately told me they would replace it with a five bolt fan at no cost. I could have had it fixed at the Diesel shop or have it towed to a Freightliner shop and it would be warranted for one year. I have tried to see the bolts from underneath and the shroud blocks the view. Freightliner has always been very helpful when I call them.
Jim Langford

[boowho]

Originally Posted by hsvjim

I have a Berkshire on a 2007 Freightliner Chassis. In 2013 my rig started to heat up and I had it towed to a Diesel Repair shop. I had not heard about the bolt problem. I thought the serpentine belt had broken. The shop took the floor out and found the fan hanging by one bolt and two sheared of bolts were somewhere. They are the metric equivalent to 5/16" fine thread. I think they are either Metric 8mm or 10mm and a 13mm wrench fits them. Seems mighty small to hold a fan assembly that big. I attached a picture of the bolts. Notice they broke at different lengths and the washer is a plain flat washer. I called the Freightliner hot line and the fellow immediately told me they would replace it with a five bolt fan at no cost. I could have had it fixed at the Diesel shop or have it towed to a Freightliner shop and it would be warranted for one year. I have tried to see the bolts from underneath and the shroud blocks the view. Freightliner has always been very helpful when I call them.
Jim Langford

Thanks for this info. Those are damn small bolts, IMHO. That's why I thought about taking one of mine out to see if I had the same anemic ones.

Again my case is on complete hold until I see what FL CS has to say tomorrow.


Boowho??

[pdqparalegal1]

Originally Posted by boowho

Blue Locktite will come loose fairly easy. RED is almost impossible; maybe IS impossible.

And backing one out will at least tell me the actual bolt size; assuming the bolt hasn't weakened and I snap the damn thing off. THAT would be just plain ugly.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Boowho??

Replace with grade 8 and torque to specs with locktite blus

[boowho]

The usual brush off from the first level CS rep. My original email to them and Rhonda's reply. Not sure if she know what she's talking about or not. But given that she's working on Sunday, she cannot be very far up the food chain.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: fcccservice@daimler.com
Date: 10/17/2015 10:18:58 PM
To: bill@bill-fischer.net
Subject: VIN BA7897 [TrackingID-000376265]



Dear Customer,
I do not think Cummins has designed an engine block with drilling for a 5
bolt mount, at this time, Freightliner has not designed a 5 bolt fan hub
mount. Your Cummins engine warranty is 5 years. The fan hub is supplied by
Freightliner and that is covered under our basic chassis warranty of 36
months/50,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Sincerely,
Rhonda Lawter
FCCC Representative



[DTNA Call Center Email]
[Queue-FCCC_OTHER_EMAIL]
[Tracking Number-000376265]


__________________________________________________ __________

Date: 10/17/2015 10:58:33 PMFrom: bill@bill-fischer.net
To: fcccservice@daimler.com
CC:
Subject: VIN BA7897




Need your help. My vehicle with the subject VIN has a engine cooling fan
that
is attached with only four bolts.

A number of other owners have had these bolts fail causing the fan to go
through the radiator causing MAJOR damage.

Supposedly, there is an upgraded 5 bolt hub available.

Would replacing the 4 bolt hub be a warranty item, since I have a 5 year
warranty on engine and drive train and I am still within the 5 year period?

Thanks

Bill Fischer

[5456Mich]

Originally Posted by boowho

Not sure if she know what she's talking about or not. But given that she's working on Sunday, she cannot be very far up the food chain.

Bill Fischer

Sorry Boo the situation is not funny, just your comment. Hope you get good news tomorrow.

[boowho]

Originally Posted by pdqparalegal1

Replace with grade 8 and torque to specs with locktite blus

Thanks for your suggestion. As I just posted, the initial response from FL was a routine "blow off". Luckily, I just happen to have a fellow available to me, that was a senior machinist with Ford Motor Company for 30 years.

He is highly regarded by all who know him and his experience. I will run the idea by him and see what he thinks. Actually, he's already mentioned Grade 8 bolts.

Finally, you seem knowledgeable.... Would you mind telling me of your experience with this sort of subject?? Your handle seems to indicate a legal background. My wife was a paralegal for 25 years, BTW.

Boowho??

[tmmar]

I complained to NY State Consumer Protection and raised the issue as a safety concern. I said that I couldn't tell what would happen if the bolts sheared and the fan went through the radiator. Didn't know what lines or other equipment would be severed by the flying debris and what could happen to other vehicles that would be around me when this happened. They contacted Freightliner and I got a call from Daimler Chrysler's Chief Legal council and they arranged to get the hub replaced. I got the same spiel that it was an add on and only covered under the 3/36 warranty. When I spoke to the techs at Freightliner I questioned them about changing the anti-freeze when they replaced the hub thinking that the radiator had to come out. They said that one of their techs was able to crawl up there and change the hub. When I asked about drilling the 5th bolt hole, they said that it the front was already pre-drilled with a 5th hole.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Replace belt driven fan with an electric one and eliminate the problem entirely.

OC I have searched a couple of places and have not found a source for a true electric fan. The hubs we have a pretty high tech and do have features that help with fuel economy. A couple of things that make a direct replacement to a electric fan are that we are dealing with a rear radiator diesel pusher. The problem with that is we have no ram air to help cool the motor like a side radiator does. All or almost all the air comes from the fan pulling air through the radiator. I have found some non electric fan opinions but they come at a price and most likely will void our warranty.
A link was posted for a over the road electric fan that looks like it would work great but it states clearly that the application must have some ram air. We have none.
This isn't as far as I can tell a easy fix. I think my approach will be to communicate with FL and keep a eye on it with frequent inspection.

[kenenn]

I found with locktite on bolts, a couple of pings with a hammer will facilitate easier removal.

[boowho]

Originally Posted by tmmar

I complained to NY State Consumer Protection and raised the issue as a safety concern. I said that I couldn't tell what would happen if the bolts sheared and the fan went through the radiator. Didn't know what lines or other equipment would be severed by the flying debris and what could happen to other vehicles that would be around me when this happened. They contacted Freightliner and I got a call from Daimler Chrysler's Chief Legal council and they arranged to get the hub replaced. I got the same spiel that it was an add on and only covered under the 3/36 warranty. When I spoke to the techs at Freightliner I questioned them about changing the anti-freeze when they replaced the hub thinking that the radiator had to come out. They said that one of their techs was able to crawl up there and change the hub. When I asked about drilling the 5th bolt hole, they said that it the front was already pre-drilled with a 5th hole.

Tom, since you've actually been through this maybe you could clarify the which bolts are the potential problem. The ones that hold the fan hub to the engine block OR the ones that hold the fan to the fan hub? BTW, the hub IS a Horton hub.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Boowho??

[tmmar]

Boo,
As far as I know, it is the bolts that hold the fan to the engine block. That is why there was a concern about the need to drill and tap a 5th hole on the block.