surge protection?

[Himcules]

Originally Posted by BigTJohn

If you do not have surge protection on your home stuff - shame on you. Some things will get splatted or hurt at home and power co is not directly liable for it. They will provide you power, oh - in the range of 104-130 vac. It will probably be ok, for awhile but the crummy supply will take its to on electronics and motor windings, you get the idea. Just pony up for the protection and sleep better for it. Both at home and RV.

i would say that 99% of homes do not have surge protection between the service feeds to their main panel. are your air conditioners, refridgerator, ovens, and microwave at home on a surge protector? i know for sure all of the homes i have bought in the past did not come with them installed. homes however, have better grounding so there is less inherent risk vs an rv.

Originally Posted by Wiscampsin

Next time you register and sign in read the fine print. You know, that paragraph of really fine print where it states 'you release the campground, it's officers and employees of all liability for loss or damage ...'

i do read all the fine print. i won't quote case law, but a release clause is not bullet proof like they think it is. supreme court has upheld this many times. power that you expect to be useable and non damaging is not excused by this simple example clause you posted.

Originally Posted by herk7769

Good luck with that. Every campground I have stayed at that had bad power just offered me a different site and (oh, no refunds).

oh i understand and expect that... the utility company would try the same thing until you prove to them their side of the service is at fault and serve them with a civil suit to cover the damages. as i try to point out, most people don't ever try to question who is liable and just take the default position of the campground/utility as defacto. you do have recourse although the onus of proof is on you. in your pic, you have clearly shown dangerous liability on the campground's part. you had recourse.

[Himcules]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

When you pay at any cg where does it state that they are liable for surges and or bad connections ?

i forgot to answer this question directly. the campground advertised that it will provide "hookups" and list the power options available (50amp, 30amp, 20amp, etc). when they do this, they are providing the utility and hence forth must comply with fed and state regulations on that utility.

[Herk7769]

So, the question is "do I have surge protection in my home."

The answer is yes; several levels worth.

On the meter base is a "whole house" meter mounted surge protector.

In the Circuit Panel, the left two top breakers are not breakers, they are surge protectors.

On my home electronics, I use a Monster surge protection as it is the best value for my dollar on my computer and home theater.

Monster GreenPower™ HDP 900G PowerCenter™

My camper has the same "defense in depth" with the Franks Autotransformer guarding the front door and a regular surge suppressor strip that my computers and audio visual equipment plug into.

Going "naked" with the high value equipment in our campers is just not an option today.

[Himcules]

Originally Posted by herk7769

So, the question is "do I have surge protection in my home."

The answer is yes; several levels worth.

On the meter base is a "whole house" meter mounted surge protector.

In the Circuit Panel, the left two top breakers are not breakers, they are surge protectors.

On my home electronics, I use a Monster surge protection as it is the best value for my dollar on my computer and home theater.

Monster GreenPower™ HDP 900G PowerCenter™

My camper has the same "defense in depth" with the Franks Autotransformer guarding the front door and a regular surge suppressor strip that my computers and audio visual equipment plug into.

Going "naked" with the high value equipment in our campers is just not an option today.

you are one of the few who have "done it right". i applaud you. the autotransformer is the correct way to do things vs an overload or underload protector.

most houses built will not have that sub meter mounted surge protector.

also, a bit of clarification: your rv has better protection than your house. you have a transformer providing you stable voltage to your rv. your house has over and under protection only... most people will have a city provided transfer sitting somewhere on the street near their house (that big metal box that is humming all the time).

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Himcules

you are one of the few who have "done it right". i applaud you. the autotransformer is the correct way to do things vs an overload or underload protector.

most houses built will not have that sub meter mounted surge protector.

also, a bit of clarification: your rv has better protection than your house. you have a transformer providing you stable voltage to your rv. your house has over and under protection only... most people will have a city provided transfer sitting somewhere on the street near their house (that big metal box that is humming all the time).

The transformer is on the pole about 100 feet from my house.

FYI - I bought the meter base when I upgraded our home from 100 amp service to 200 amp service. http://www.metertreater.com/Utility_Products.html

PS - PS - The township inspector told me my installation was better than most electrical contractors when he signed off on the install so I could hook up to the grid.

[BarryD0706]

Originally Posted by mjracsj

...
Although isn't Progressive the company that had all the recalls on our coach power converters? Or maybe they were who FR switched to after all of that.

NO and No. Are you thinking of Progressive Dynamics? Progressive Industries does not make converters.

[Herk7769]

Since I bought my meter base suppressor (and all my other stuff) through my neighbor (contractor), I found an open source for these units for any other DIY'ers out there.

http://www.taxproboise.com/computer/...sed_surge_supp

[rattleNsmoke]

Responsibility of the campground owner and the reality of having them pay your damages are two different things. Unless you're prepared to represent yourself in court, the costs associated with the claim probably wouldn't be worth the battle let alone the time required to prosecute especially if you were out of State when it happened. As others have stated, purchase a good protector. It's cheap insurance.

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

I have a progressive industries hardwired unit.

X2.

Great piece of equipment. Really have a feeling of security when I plug in and watch it do its thing.

[Himcules]

Originally Posted by herk7769

The transformer is on the pole about 100 feet from my house.

FYI - I bought the meter base when I upgraded our home from 100 amp service to 200 amp service. http://www.metertreater.com/Utility_Products.html

PS - PS - The township inspector told me my installation was better than most electrical contractors when he signed off on the install so I could hook up to the grid.

well.. i thought the idea was to protect yourself from grid surge. that transformer down the street belongs to the utility and could surge. similarly there are transformers spread throughout a campground to provide the power to the individual sites. your autotransformer is your own so you are controlling that voltage before it enters your home.

however, it appears you have this before the auto transfer switch, so your autotransformer is only managing shore power and not handling generator power. what happens if your generator produces a surge then? your individual power strips would protect devices behind them but you still have many appliances not protected.

Originally Posted by rattleNsmoke

Responsibility of the campground owner and the reality of having them pay your damages are two different things. Unless you're prepared to represent yourself in court, the costs associated with the claim probably wouldn't be worth the battle let alone the time required to prosecute especially if you were out of State when it happened. As others have stated, purchase a good protector. It's cheap insurance.

wasn't the argument that the damage created was in the 10's of thousands of dollars? that's not a small claims case so you can have an attorney represent you for the majority of the case.

i'm not advocating you do nothing, get your coach damaged and then sue the campground. i'm just pointing out that you don't have to take it when the campground dishes out BS for their own fault.

cost and value are subjective. for the berkshire, you have options of simple from the low end of ~$100 to ~$300 for a portable unit and then the high end of a unit like the frank's autoformer at $1000 + install (unless you can do it yourself). how much does peace of mind cost? would the $1000 unit protect better than the $100 unit? at some point, the argument of diminishing returns is biting pretty hard...

[Herk7769]

I do not have a transfer switch at the camper (5th wheel; not Berkshire).

I plug the shore power cord into the generator in the bed of my truck.
The Franks works just fine with my Yamaha.

As to the "transformer on the pole" it was a "wink wink" to the autotransformer comment you made. The house protectors work plenty great for me. We also have a 6500 watt house generator for power outages.

As to campground's responsibility for brown outs; I can tell you from first hand experience that you will get "The Reserve Salute" (shrug) when you complain.

They will tell you it is the power company's problem and go talk to them.

Wow! that was close!
And I learned something new about the forum software!

[Himcules]

Originally Posted by herk7769

I do not have a transfer switch at the camper (5th wheel; not Berkshire).

I plug the shore power cord into the generator in the bed of my truck.
The Franks works just fine with my Yamaha.

As to the "transformer on the pole" it was a "wink wink" to the autotransformer comment you made. The house protectors work plenty great for me. We also have a 6500 watt house generator for power outages.

As to campground's responsibility for brown outs; I can tell you from first hand experience that you will get "The Reserve Salute" (shrug) when you complain.

They will tell you it is the power company's problem and go talk to them.

Wow! that was close!
And I learned something new about the forum software!

your 5th wheel camper does not have an auto transfer switch? wow... thought that was included for a long time...

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Himcules

your 5th wheel camper does not have an auto transfer switch? wow... thought that was included for a long time...

Does not ship with a generator, so no need for a switch.

[mjracsj]

Wow lots more heated comments than I was expecting! So bottom line how many Berk owners have installed aftermarket surge protection?? And if so what type?

[clange]

Originally Posted by herk7769

In the Circuit Panel, the left two top breakers are not breakers, they are surge protectors.

Herk,

Where'd you find those surge protectors that fit your breaker slots? Those are pretty slick.

[Himcules]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Does not ship with a generator, so no need for a switch.

ahh... never had a 5th wheel. didn't know some do not come with a generator. again, i thought all that was standard issue... good to know...

Originally Posted by mjracsj

Wow lots more heated comments than I was expecting! So bottom line how many Berk owners have installed aftermarket surge protection?? And if so what type?

what heated comments? just some discussion that helps to take a closer look at what it's really trying to solve instead of taking summary advice on the internet without the details as to why...

although my posts may seem contradictory to this, but i've been researching this topic as well and have been debating which unit for myself.... i just refuse to pick the popular one without knowing exactly why and i go into more detail research than most will ever do...

before i plug my rv in, i routinely put my fluke multimeter on the service pedestal at every campsite i've ever been to...

[Himcules]

Originally Posted by clange

Herk,

Where'd you find those surge protectors that fit your breaker slots? Those are pretty slick.

find the make of your service panel (what brand are your breakers). every maker has surge protector breakers that work in conjunction with the their own meter suppressor. d square, eaton/cutler hammer, ge, etc...

[ernest917]

Still think its smarter to just install a Progressive unit in your rig and then there's no need to worry abt having to sue anyone.... Just too much hassle plus you also have the hassle of getting your rig fixed....

[rvdrmin]

Sorry I might be a little late replying. Had CW install 50A Surge Guard protector for peace of mind. Here's the link: http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...ge-guard/69523.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by clange

Herk,

Where'd you find those surge protectors that fit your breaker slots?
Those are pretty slick.

Looks like they don't make the "solo" breakers any more (those slots are lost).

They are now integrated with 20 amp branch circuits so you won't lose the slot circuit.

Murray 20 Amp 6.5 in. Whole House Surge Protected Circuit Breaker-MSA2020SPDP at The Home Depot

Siemens QSA2020SPD Whole House Surge Protection with Two 20-Amp Circuit Breakers for Use Only on Siemens Panels - Amazon.com


You of course will need to find the one that fits your panel.

Found this while searching for the panel mounted one.

Leviton 50240-MSA 120/240 Volt 200 Amp, Secondary Surge Arrestor, Surge Protective Device 4 Jaw Socket Meter Socket - Amazon.com


Here is another option that uses an existing 220 volt breaker in the first slot (upper left usually) to add whole house protection.

http://www.amazon.com/WHOLE-LIGHTNIN...d_sim_sbs_hi_7