A potential health risk?

[acadianbob]

We just got back from a LONG trip and we were unloading our trailer after a day on the road. I noticed an odd and unpleasant smell in the trailer that I had never smelled before. I opened 2 roof vents and decided to check in the morning. Yep, the smell was still there and I thought it smelled vaguely like gas. In checking, I found that DW had left the pilot light on in the oven. I shut it off and came back several hours later. Smell is a lot less. Turned on the roof vent fan and vented the trailer. Smell totally gone.

I was shocked at the level of odor from that pilot light. Then I became concerned that this is a possible health risk? Well, none of the alarms went off; LP, CO2, etch. But it made me wonder nevertheless.

Anyone else ever notice this? And is this a risk?

[TURBS]

doesn't sound like your detectors are working ?

[Herk7769]

The propane detector should have gone off.
When was the last time you checked it?

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by herk7769

The propane detector should have gone off.
When was the last time you checked it?

Most people probably don't check them !
better yet do they know how ?

[Herk7769]

Here is my manual.

[Herk7769]

The answer to your first question:

Why it did not detect the open pilot is on the first page.

The answer to your second question about testing it is on the second page.

[RJHuser]

More importantly, you better have the oven checked!

If it has a pilot light, it should have a thermocouple and a gas control valve - no pilot light (i.e., heat) the thermocouple quits generating the electrical power that keeps the pilot gas valve open.

If the pilot gas was on and unlit, you got very lucky - any spark could have blown the trailer (and you) up.

As far as the smell, since LP gas (as well as natural gas) has no natural odor, a chemical substance called Methyl Mercaptan (Methanethiol) is added. Mercaptans smells like rotten cabbage. Due to the extremely low odor threshold of thiols in general (an odor threshold as low as 0.002 ppm), they are added to otherwise odorless gases such as LPG and NG, enabling people to detect leaks by smell. In the concentration used in LPG and NG, they are harmless.

[Fire Instructor]

RJH is exactly correct. A 2008 unit should either have no pilot (electic spark ignition) or if it DOES have a pilot, the pilot should have a thermocouple.

Since I travel with the as on to supply the fridge, I added "Check stove burners" to the list of things that I check before starting down the road. Since the stove is right below the left-side slide lock, I do it then.

[crocus]

since the camper is about 5 years old, it probably wouldn't hurt to replace the propane detector.

[acadianbob]

Thank you all for the input. I'll check the detector. The pilot was on and it was burning so I think that the stove is OK. The green light was on on the detector but I guess that doesn't mean it is working. Yes, it is 5 years old so . . . . Again, thanks for the info.

[acadianbob]

OK, I read the PDB and the detector is apparently to detect unburned propane. But my pilot light was lit and burning. So, what I smelled was the bi-product of LP combustion (I think). It was apparently not enough to set off the CO detector; which is brand new. So, I'm thinking that the LP detector would not have detected this?

Sorry, I wasn't clear on the fact that the pilot light was actually still burning.

Maybe I should be double-checking my CO detector?

This all just doesn't seem right to me. I'm not liking it.

[dnaraG_1M]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

OK, I read the PDB and the detector is apparently to detect unburned propane. But my pilot light was lit and burning. So, what I smelled was the bi-product of LP combustion (I think). It was apparently not enough to set off the CO detector; which is brand new. So, I'm thinking that the LP detector would not have detected this?

Sorry, I wasn't clear on the fact that the pilot light was actually still burning.

Maybe I should be double-checking my CO detector?

Isn't CO odorless? That's one thing that makes it
so dangerous, right?

I would think the smell was something else.
Burning food residue splashed on oven?


cheers,
johnd

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by dnaraG_1M

Isn't CO odorless? That's one thing that makes it so dangerous, right? I would think the smell was something else.
Burning food residue splashed on oven?
cheers,
johnd

CO is dangerous because hemoglobin (the oxygen carrier in the blood) LOVES the stuff more than oxygen. Once you clog up your hemoglobin with CO molecules you need a hyperbaric chamber to blast them off.

On TV the hero rushes into the garage where someone is in the car with the motor running; carries the dude outside and 2 or 3 breaths later he is good as new. NOT

Additionally, CO is a colorless and odorless gas (a byproduct of any hydrocarbon being combusted - propane is a hydrocarbon).

My propane detector only detects propane, but others also detect CO.

I think John is right on. The trapped heat from the pilot most likely "warmed" up some goodies stuck to the oven.

[Unruly]

I guess I will weigh in on this one. Being a firefighter I can tell you that CO is odorless and extremely dangerous/deadly. If you are smelling something it is not CO. If your pilot light is out the thermocouple will prevent gas for escaping through the unlit pilot orifice by default. My brothers are heating/ac guys and the say it is impossible to leak, the gas regulator will not allow it, period. It sounds like bad cooking is the culprit, you may want to have a chat with the DW j/k hope this helps ya.....

[acadianbob]

Originally Posted by Unruly

It sounds like bad cooking is the culprit, you may want to have a chat with the DW j/k hope this helps ya.....

Ummmmm . . . you better tell her . . . . !!!

But I thank you for the info!!!

[DAISY BOYKIN]

The smell you noticed may be your propane tank is about empty even with the pilot light is still burning or lit. When propane is manufactured it is odorless. By law a small amount of a chemical is added in the process of making propane as a safety measure to alert you as the presence of gas by smell. When you propane tank is about empty, this odor is concentrated to smell.

You should be running out of propane shortly in the tank you are using. This is the reason the detector did not get tripped. It will detect raw propane or butane not the smell of the chemical that is added during making of the butane or propane.

This chemical is known in the field by the user as "CAPTAN" for a short name. The chemical name is "ETHYL MERCAPTAN". This chemical will produce a "ROTTEN EGG SMELL" to your near empty tank. This odor is not dangerous to your health but as a reminder of a gas leak or your tank needs refilling.

Good luck!

[PapaSmurf]

I agree, your propane tank is probably getting low. For some reason, and I am sure someone will tell us why, but you get an extra dose of stink when your tank is about to run out of gas. I have noticed this phenomenon in the past. Since the pilot is so low volume, it does not burn the stink off like the burners or furnace. As a result, you get the smell you described.

[Herk7769]

Sorry, but I can't get my head around this.
Why are you smelling Mercaptan INSIDE the camper again?

I can see you getting a whiff when changing bottles (the gas between the checkvalve and cap is released) and possibly outside if the vent burbs to release trapped pressure; but you should never "smell gas" inside unless you open a burner and it fails to light; right?

[dnaraG_1M]

Originally Posted by DAISY BOYKIN

The smell you noticed may be your propane tank is about empty even with the pilot light is still burning or lit. When propane is manufactured it is odorless. By law a small amount of a chemical is added in the process of making propane as a safety measure to alert you as the presence of gas by smell. When you propane tank is about empty, this odor is concentrated to smell.

You should be running out of propane shortly in the tank you are using. This is the reason the detector did not get tripped. It will detect raw propane or butane not the smell of the chemical that is added during making of the butane or propane.

This chemical is known in the field by the user as "CAPTAN" for a short name. The chemical name is "ETHYL MERCAPTAN". This chemical will produce a "ROTTEN EGG SMELL" to your near empty tank. This odor is not dangerous to your health but as a reminder of a gas leak or your tank needs refilling.

Good luck!

That's an interesting post. But the more I thought about it
the more confused I became. Handling propane for more
half a century, I have never smelled "the stink" except
when raw (unburned) gas was present. Never when it
was combusted.......????

A more interesting question is: Why would the propane
companies use a "smell gas" that does not completely
burn up - leaving the smell, but not triggering the propane
detectors. False positives like that - smell but no leak -
would make (some) people ignore the smell. With
potentially fatal results when the positive is NOT
false..........

And I simply cannot imagine gov't over-regulators
allowing such a condition to exist!! [Think about
overfill protection on ALL bottles because of a couple
of idiots.]

Bottom line: will you point me to the scientific literature
that explains how and why this condition exists?

Thanks in advance,
johnd

[DAISY BOYKIN]

LP-GAS ODORIZATION INFORMATION FOR PROPANE (C3H8) TRADE NAME:LIQUIFIED PETROLEUM GAS, LP GAS, LPG, HD5, PROPANE.

Maybe this will answer your question about the smell in propane. Listed below is a web site that goes into detail about the safety of propane and the odor smell of "ROTTEN EGGS" of "ETHYL MERCAPTAN" that is added for
YOUR safety in using propane and listed like gasses.


http://www.suhresgas.com/help/LP_GAS...TION_INFO.html