Furnace vs Space heater questions

[Coolharts]

We use the fireplace and a space heater of 400W, keeps the camper nice and warm even with lows in the 30s.

[HONDAMAN174]

The furnace is convenient but wakes me when it kicks on. Like others we run a seperate extension cord to the pedistial and keep it on low all the time. I think the furnace kicked on three times during last trip.


2014 Evo 2850 "Woodstock"
2011 Toyota Tundra "Clifford"

[bob caldwell]

Enjoying as we post

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by jughrad

I use two small electric space heaters, not due to propane cost, rather, to keep the condensation down. One large electric heater can trip the GFI because it is usually shared with other outlets. It is best to keep two 1000W heaters on different circuits than one 1500W on a single circuit.

Propane is so cheap, I would not factor cost unless you are a full timer.

Not sure what you're implying here. If you think the furnace ads moisture, you're wrong. While the propane combustion creates moisture, it's all on the combustion side and is routed out of the TT. (If it's not being routed out of the TT, then you're going to have carbon monoxide problems and shouldn't be using the furnace anyway.)

[retiredcamper47]

We use a ceramic heater to take the chill off. We travel with our pet parrot and need to keep him "warm" on those chilly days/nights. Only problem we have encountered is the parrot and ceramic heater are in the living room area. We have a front bedroom and the heater keeps the thermostat from turning on the furnace to heat the bedroom. So we just turn off the heater at night and use the furnace. It works well this way for us.

Bob

[mtnlvr]

I use a small, quiet space heater that has a thermastat. Like others, I find the furnace too noisy. Because I have dogs, I set mine on the stove top for safety.

[FrankG]

The below figures are based on Propane costing $3.00/gal and the heating unit delivering 60% efficiency, the electricity costing $.15/kwh and the heating unit operating at 100% efficiency.

$1.00 of electricity will net you 22,753 BTU of energy
$1.00 of propane will net you 18,267 BTU of heating energy

Please note: These are some base numbers, yours will very depending on energy costs and actual efficiency of your heating unites. I used several web sites to gather information and extrapolate data. Errors may be included at no charge.

[johnbryanpeters]

Originally Posted by FrankG

The below figures are based on Propane costing $3.00/gal and the heating unit delivering 60% efficiency, the electricity costing $.15/kwh and the heating unit operating at 100% efficiency.

$1.00 of electricity will net you 22,753 BTU of energy
$1.00 of propane will net you 18,267 BTU of heating energy

Please note: These are some base numbers, yours will very depending on energy costs and actual efficiency of your heating unites. I used several web sites to gather information and extrapolate data. Errors may be included at no charge.

So roughly an 8% savings, disregarding "free" power at campgrounds...

[Stealth FQ2916]

Ceramic heater at the back of the trailer, since there are no furnace vents back there.
I also made some legs for it to keep it around 6 inches above the carpet or floor.
Once the furnace and heater get it up to around 65 degree's in there, the ceramic heater usually just runs off and on, on its own.

Not sure what the furnace is doing other than not much.

[markb422]

Do you have a heat strip in your a/c unit? Or do you have a heat pump?
We use two electric bedroom heaters when plugged in. I set them to medium so no worry about overloaded circuits. Both have tip over safety so no worry about fires. One of the heaters is in the bedroom and the other in the living area. When I get up and DW wants to sleep in (always) both spaces are warm. I am thinking about adding a heat strip to the A/C so I would probably use that. Either way, plugged in, use heaters. Unplugged, use the furnace.

[jughrad]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Not sure what you're implying here. If you think the furnace ads moisture, you're wrong. While the propane combustion creates moisture, it's all on the combustion side and is routed out of the TT. (If it's not being routed out of the TT, then you're going to have carbon monoxide problems and shouldn't be using the furnace anyway.)

Propane combustion byproducts include a large quantity of water vapor. Standard RV furnaces are HORIZONTALLY vented to the outside and may not be perfectly efficient, hence, adding moisture to the inside air.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by markb422

Do you have a heat strip in your a/c unit? Or do you have a heat pump?
We use two electric bedroom heaters when plugged in. I set them to medium so no worry about overloaded circuits. Both have tip over safety so no worry about fires. One of the heaters is in the bedroom and the other in the living area. When I get up and DW wants to sleep in (always) both spaces are warm. I am thinking about adding a heat strip to the A/C so I would probably use that. Either way, plugged in, use heaters. Unplugged, use the furnace.

Based on the fan in my A/C, I'd think the strip heater option would very noisy.
I

[markb422]

The heat srip is a lot less noisy than the a/c as the compressor does not come on. It depends on where the a/c unit is located. If you have a heat pump the compressor comes on and is as noisy as the a/c.
Also the furnace actually dries the air inside as it passes over the heat exchanger.

[Islander]

I would have to agree with most here on this topic.

If we are at a RV park plugged in we use the 'included free' 110volt heater(s).

The furnace is too noisy to leave on overnight and why pay for propane if I get free electric heat.

Here in the Pacific Northwest any camping in the Spring, Fall and even sometimes in the Summer evenings can require a source of heating.

If we arrive back at a cold 5th wheel we'll put the furnace on to quickly warm up the place while the electric kicks in.
We travel with 3 different types of electric heaters... I'll explain...
- the regular is a fan driven floor unit up to 1500 watts with 3 different settings.
- then when we only need to maintain the main area we use an oil-filled heater, mainly because it is quiet.
- the third heater is a cylinder style heater that allows the heat to come out 360 degrees (not temperature...in direction) and we use it for drying towels or rain wear we hang in the shower with heater below... we 'never' leave the trailer (for a minute) when that heater is running.

If we are running any electric heater at 'high' I usually turn off the 110volt heating element on our hot water tank, just in case the battery charger kicks in or the DW uses the hair dryer...I'm not an electrical wiz, but if the breakers trip it's always better to prevent it from happening first IMO.

Islander

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by markb422

The heat srip is a lot less noisy than the a/c as the compressor does not come on. It depends on where the a/c unit is located. If you have a heat pump the compressor comes on and is as noisy as the a/c.
Also the furnace actually dries the air inside as it passes over the heat exchanger.

The furnace doesn't "dry" the air. It raises the temperature of the air, which reduces the relative humidity, but it doesn't "dry" it. If it did, that moisture would have to go somewhere, and it doesn't. The air is just now able to hold more moisture.

Moisture removal is almost always done by reducing the temperature. This increases the relative humidity, which then allows the moisture to condense and drop out. This is basically how a de-humidifier works. It's also how moisture is removed in commercial buildings. A large chiller unit drops the air temperature to about 42 F, causing the moisture to condense out. The air is then reheated to the desired temperature.

(This is why the Fed's telling all gov't buildings to raise their thermostats in the summer to "save energy" back in 80's and 90's was so humorous. It just increased energy consumption because they were now re-heating the air from 42F to 75F instead of to 70F. Bunch of idiot politicians thinking commercial building AC works like the AC in their houses.)

[FrankG]

Originally Posted by jughrad

Propane combustion byproducts include a large quantity of water vapor. Standard RV furnaces are HORIZONTALLY vented to the outside and may not be perfectly efficient, hence, adding moisture to the inside air.

I respectfully disagree with the last sentence. It is a very dangerous and life threatening condition if the heat exchanger is compromised in any way. This is the only way combustion gases and water vapor can enter into the RV. You cannot get one without the other.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by jughrad

Propane combustion byproducts include a large quantity of water vapor. Standard RV furnaces are HORIZONTALLY vented to the outside and may not be perfectly efficient, hence, adding moisture to the inside air.

Originally Posted by FrankG

I respectfully disagree with the last sentence. It is a very dangerous and life threatening condition if the heat exchanger is compromised in any way. This is the only way combustion gases and water vapor can enter into the RV. You cannot get one without the other.

X2 on Franks comment. If it were true, Jug, your CO monitor would be alarming all the time and you would be poisoning yourself.

In fact, vertical or horizontal venting doesn't matter. When the newer 90% efficient home furnaces (some vertical, some horizontal, with forced draft) started coming out in the 90's, they had a lot of problems with cracking heat exchangers putting CO into the houses.

Also, it has nothing to do with "efficiency." Efficiency is the percentage of BTU's put into the TT, whether those BTU's are added by heating air or "moisture," divided by the number of BTU's in the propane. It has to do with "leak-tightness" of the heat exchanger.

[ben31]

Wow, this thread was fairly tame, compared to the last exchange on a related topic!

One of the main reasons touse your furnace is to lessen the chance of your basement items (tanks) freezing. We mostly use an electric space heater when the temps are above about 32 degrees and a combination, when it is below that.

[boondocking]

Originally Posted by jughrad

Propane combustion byproducts include a large quantity of water vapor. Standard RV furnaces are HORIZONTALLY vented to the outside and may not be perfectly efficient, hence, adding moisture to the inside air.

If your furnace is adding moisture to the air in your trailer I would shut it down immediately and have it repaired before you kill yourself.

[johng4706]

I too use a ceramic space heater with a thermostat. It has a safety feature that shuts the unit off if tipped over. I set mine on the kitchen counter by the sink. It works great.

If it gets really cold I'll run the furnace a couple of minutes.

When I'm in a full service campsite, electricity is already paid for, using propane costs money.