Lowering Freeze Point in Black & Gray Tanks

[emeth]

Has anyone any suggestions for lowering the freeze point in the gray and black tanks, (protective winterizing between dumps)?

We are wintering in Washington and expect some very cold days ahead.

Thanks.

[DougW]

How cold is "very cold"? For some that would mean 25 deg for others -25deg. If the temps are not to get below 20deg nor stay there for very long you could use windshield washer anti freeze for flushing to help protect the black tank. Adding anti freeze to the grey tank does not seem like it would to a lot of good as it would take a lot of anti freeze to not get over diluted and allow freezing anyway.

If you will have full hookups avaialable just leave the grey open and use it as normal.

The best thing would be to dump every evening.

[Bama Rambler]

Does your RV have heated tanks or underbelly? (Not trying to be smart about it, but most RV's sold in that part of the world come with tank/plumbing heaters.)
If so just turn on the heaters or run the furnace a little more than normal.

If neither of those are possible just pour a gallon of RV antifreeze in the tanks.
The best thing would be to go ahead and dump and then add the antifreeze. That way it's also protecting the lines.

[emeth]

The temp we are to expect could be below freezing for varying amounts of time.

Last year, so I am told, went to -20 F.

We do have the 'Arctic Pack' and wonder if it is a good Idea to have empty tanks during the coldest segments with the tank heaters on?

RV Antifreeze would be quite expensive over several months and I am wondering if there is anything else, (we use fabric softener in both the black and Gray tanks), that would lower the freezing point?

[Jmkjr72]

Where the heck in Washington state are you going to see -20f other then on top of a mountain
I lved in wester washinto for 8 years and it her then the Mountains saw snow 1 time

My after lives in easter Washington his well pump is in an un insulated shed

Honestly look for a lower elevation near by or put straw bales around and heat the underside

[Bikersarge]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

Where the heck in Washington state are you going to see -20f other then on top of a mountain
I lved in wester washinto for 8 years and it her then the Mountains saw snow 1 time

My after lives in easter Washington his well pump is in an un insulated shed

Honestly look for a lower elevation near by or put straw bales around and heat the underside

I was stationed at Ft. Lewis WA. for 2 years and at that time I don't ever remember it getting below 30 and if it did it was not for very long, they get wet cold winters like Germany.

[emeth]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

Where the heck in Washington state are you going to see -20f other then on top of a mountain
I lved in wester washinto for 8 years and it her then the Mountains saw snow 1 time

My after lives in easter Washington his well pump is in an un insulated shed

Honestly look for a lower elevation near by or put straw bales around and heat the underside

Ellensburg, and the temp was most probably caused by wind chill which we do have lost of wind.

It won't really matter as below freezing is still below freezing.

[Flybob]

Some porta-poti companies in very cold areas add water conditioner salt to the holding tanks to lower the freezing point. Inexpensive and easy to obtain.

[KenandCarol]

Originally Posted by emeth

We do have the 'Arctic Pack' and wonder if it is a good Idea to have empty tanks during the coldest segments with the tank heaters on?

You do not want to run the tank heaters (Arctic Pack) with empty tanks. But since you have tank heaters just make sure you have 5-10 gallons in them and turn on the heaters. That is what they are for. Nothing else required to lower the freezing point since you will heat them above freezing.

[Jmkjr72]

So you are talking about a near record low for that area normal lows are not much below 20 deg

Wind chill can be just as bad because it will cool an exposed pipe down to the ambient air temp faster then no windchill it wont make it any colder just reach that temp faster

Yes here in that he midwest where we do see many subzero days back that he back they do put salt I. Porta johns. But againg just like rv antifreeze it will need that hero be asntifreezedded every time you drain.

The best bet is to put some sort of skirt around and heat under.straw is your best bang and unlike hay has no neutrcional value so it attracts less pests

[emeth]

Originally Posted by KenandCarol

You do not want to run the tank heaters (Arctic Pack) with empty tanks. But since you have tank heaters just make sure you have 5-10 gallons in them and turn on the heaters. That is what they are for. Nothing else required to lower the freezing point since you will heat them above freezing.

Thank you Ken.

The 'Therma Heat' manual states that "no harm will come to the tank if there is no water in the tank" (page 11), (finally was able to check the manual ).

[emeth]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

So you are talking about a near record low for that area normal lows are not much below 20 deg

Wind chill can be just as bad because it will cool an exposed pipe down to the ambient air temp faster then no windchill it wont make it any colder just reach that temp faster

Yes here in that he midwest where we do see many subzero days back that he back they do put salt I. Porta johns. But againg just like rv antifreeze it will need that hero be asntifreezedded every time you drain.

The best bet is to put some sort of skirt around and heat under.straw is your best bang and unlike hay has no neutrcional value so it attracts less pests

Skirts being installed next week and last year was, I believe, your cyclic bad year.

[emeth]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

The best bet is to put some sort of skirt around and heat under.straw is your best bang and unlike hay has no neutrcional value so it attracts less pests

Unfortunately, most cannot tell the difference between straw and hay and wet hay around your propane supply could be a recipe for more heat than you bargained for.

Hay and straw are very difficult to clean up after the snow melts or if you need to move your RV in the winter.

[B and B]

For the Record.

Windchill only affects living creatures and does not effect things like water and equipment.

[Jmkjr72]

Originally Posted by emeth

Unfortunately, most cannot tell the difference between straw and hay and wet hay around your propane supply could be a recipe for more heat than you bargained for.

Hay and straw are very difficult to clean up after the snow melts or if you need to move your RV in the winter.

If you leave them as bales it's very easy to clean up. I have used them to insulate many things over the years and even on construction sites. In places that really have winter Very easy to tell them apart in person straw won't be green is the obvious key alfa and grass smell diffrent too. If the farmer doesn't know what it is then he shouldn't be a farmer as straw is left overs from wheat oats and barley and bailed after the harvest hay is cut to be bailed

Wet hay is only an issue when stacked in a barn we leave huge round bales out year round here in wisconsin uncovered
You would actually need it tcatch in fire to have any thing to worry about and stacked I nut side around a trailer it isn't going too happen

[Jmkjr72]

Originally Posted by B and B

For the Record.

Windchill only affects living creatures and does not effect things like water and equipment.

Next time it's windy and sub zero out put 2 pans of water outside protect one from the wind and leave one in the open. I guarantee the one unprotected will freeze faster

It won't get any colder then the anymbient temperature but it does cool faster when windy

Plus wind will drive the cold anymbient into any Crack anymbientirnd cause things to freeze up

[emeth]

Originally Posted by B and B

For the Record.

Windchill only affects living creatures and does not effect things like water and equipment.

Correct, however, if the ambient temperature is below freezing, and the wind-chill factor is high, how will this effect heat tape and tank heaters in the affected areas. Will they be adversely affected and not be able to keep their respective pipes and tanks above freezing?

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

Next time it's windy and sub zero out put 2 pans of water outside protect one from the wind and leave one in the open. I guarantee the one unprotected will freeze faster

It won't get any colder then the anymbient temperature but it does cool faster when windy

Plus wind will drive the cold anymbient into any Crack anymbientirnd cause things to freeze up

That will be true for a pan of water, which evaporates. It won't be true for a pipe (or tank) filled with water that can't evaporate. Evaporation is what causes wind chill.

[emeth]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

That will be true for a pan of water, which evaporates. It won't be true for a pipe (or tank) filled with water that can't evaporate. Evaporation is what causes wind chill.

I am much encouraged, so, the only thing that wind-chill would adversely affect our winter stay, is the higher usage of propane.

[emeth]

Originally Posted by Jmkjr72

If you leave them as bales it's very easy to clean up. I have used them to insulate many things over the years and even on construction sites. In places that really have winter Very easy to tell them apart in person straw won't be green is the obvious key alfa and grass smell diffrent too. If the farmer doesn't know what it is then he shouldn't be a farmer as straw is left overs from wheat oats and barley and bailed after the harvest hay is cut to be bailed

Wet hay is only an issue when stacked in a barn we leave huge round bales out year round here in wisconsin uncovered
You would actually need it catch in fire to have any thing to worry about and stacked I nut side around a trailer it isn't going too happen

I would agree, however, collectively, we have seen the mess that both hay and straw can cause for RV's and Maintenance; plus the folks that like to barbecue and have camp fires in the park.