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Old 07-21-2018, 12:39 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Tundra 2014 View Post
As others have said, "You can pull it, but can you stop it?"

You should not be relying on the TV to stop your trailer - that's what the trailer's brakes are for!
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:40 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by joeuncool View Post
Naw, you really need to be safe and make sure you are well within your tow margins. F650 the only way to be sure.

Yesss!
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:26 AM   #63
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Numbers for my truck, based on Combined Weight minus the actual loaded weight of my truck.
I think what he was asking is are you getting your trucks listed numbers from the little sticker in the drivers door (where you should be getting them from) or from the manufacturer's website or printed material (where you shouldn't be getting them from).
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:00 AM   #64
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I think what he was asking is are you getting your trucks listed numbers from the little sticker in the drivers door (where you should be getting them from) or from the manufacturer's website or printed material (where you shouldn't be getting them from).

I always use the real numbers for my actual truck, never general info numbers.
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Old 07-22-2018, 01:13 AM   #65
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My brother bought a 36' TT bumper pull and traded in his smaller 26' TT because he just HAD to have more room. His TV was a 2015 f150 EcoBoost. He assured me his tow vehicle was good enough for the new TT... well after white knuckling thier first trip out with the new 36' TT he sold the F160 and came home with a 2018 F350 diesel.. I told him, but he wouldn't listen to me until he experienced it himself.

I'm a firm believer in having too much tow rig for your trailer. I have a dodge ram 250 Cummins 4 door long bed with a 6 spd manual transmission, and I'm looking at TTs that weigh less than 4500 lbs... can o tow more? Heck yes. Can I do it safely? You bet. But at this stage in life I dont need to, and like I said, I'd certainly like to be safe rather than sorry.
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:45 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by kandl View Post
You should not be relying on the TV to stop your trailer - that's what the trailer's brakes are for!


Trailer brakes should help but the TV should be able to stop the trailer on it's own in the event of a failure. I took a trip out west last year. We traveled 5000 miles out through Wyoming and Colorado before heading east again. It was only the following spring during a pre-season inspection that I discovered that my trailer brakes were not working. There was no indication in my truck that the brakes had failed but I was able to complete the entire trip unaware that I had no trailer brakes.

Moral of the story. If your truck cannot stop the trailer on it's own, either upsize the truck or downsize the trailer. I can't imagine a scarier scenario of needing to stop quickly in an emergency and not being able to.
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Old 07-22-2018, 03:59 AM   #67
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Trailer brakes should help but the TV should be able to stop the trailer on it's own in the event of a failure.

Fascinating! That implies that a very large segment of the RVing community are operating with inadequate TVs. Who would've thunk?
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:13 AM   #68
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Fascinating! That implies that a very large segment of the RVing community are operating with inadequate TVs. Who would've thunk?
Yup
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:51 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by kandl View Post
Fascinating! That implies that a very large segment of the RVing community are operating with inadequate TVs. Who would've thunk?
What I got out of it was that apparently some folks don't check their trailer brakes at the start of every tow day. I have no idea how you could NOT know your trailer brakes were nonfunctional, especially over a long trip.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:00 AM   #70
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What I got out of it was that apparently some folks don't check their trailer brakes at the start of every tow day. I have no idea how you could NOT know your trailer brakes were nonfunctional, especially over a long trip.
Not only do I do the manual brake check with the brake controller rolling down the road for the day, I also occasionally through the year jack up each wheel and make sure there is some braking force. Seen too many magnets or wire connections fail.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:10 PM   #71
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The brakes on this Ram seem work just fine.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:32 PM   #72
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Attachment 180918

The brakes on this Ram seem work just fine.

Nah, that is the new way to launch a boat. He just forgot to get to the lake first!!
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:14 PM   #73
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Attachment 180918

The brakes on this Ram seem work just fine.
My boat has straps in the back and a chain in front to stop that. Not a good picture but it looks like he used neither.
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Old 07-23-2018, 07:16 PM   #74
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The brakes on this Ram seem work just fine.
He must have hit something. RAM brakes don't work that well!
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Old 07-23-2018, 09:39 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Kiradaranch View Post
Another thought: I’m guessing most not half tons are shipped with P rated tires as well. Big heavy springs alone don’t make it a heavier truck.
The F 150s with the HDPP come with LT tires.
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Old 07-24-2018, 07:54 AM   #76
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Kinda long, and filled with personal observations.

I think the biggest problem most people have when trying to tow a TT with a 1/2 ton PU, is pretty glaring in the OP. The Ram he was driving, was never set up to tow anything beyond a bank note and or a small trailer, for say, something like a lawnmower or jonboat.

If you’re going to tow a heavier TT with your 1/2 ton PU besides a short pull to a local campground, it’d better have a few basics.
Auxiliary trans cooler.
Decent brakes.
A rear axle ratio at least midway between 3. something and 4. something. Closer to 4. something is best the heavier you get.
Decent tires, that can be inflated to something that will carry a load other then groceries.

You need to understand, gassers make all their power with rpms. Modern PU’s, are purposefully geared towards the idea of fuel economy. The lower the rpms, the less fuel they use. The downside to this, is that your F150 Ford isn’t making all of that 300+ horsepower until your approaching 5000rpms. It’s called a power band. On a Dyno chart, the big hp and torque, is at the peak of the curve. That’s not 1500rpms.

Just because your tranny wants to upshift, and your speed is increasing, it doesn’t mean you should let it when pulling a grade with a load. As soon as it upshifts the rpms drop, and your mighty “I take my kids to school in this truck” just lost the 50 horses and torque it needed to pull that grade. Now all of a sudden, your losing speed, until you force a downshift. Diesels make googobs of torque at low rpms. Gassers don’t. Find your trucks power sweet spot on a long grade, and keep it there, even if it’s a bit slower then you like. The truck that is constantly upshifting anytime you get within arms reach of 2k, is going to sound like it’s on the verge of disintegrating at 5k. It takes some getting used to. Max power is going to be well below the redline on a factory specimen.

The factory shift points are just not set up for any serious weight hauling with a 1/2 ton truck. That has been my experience with my 2010 F150. The truck’s brain has been preset, to upshift anytime it gets close to 2k. You can force it to stay in gear by keeping your foot on the gas, but as soon as you ease up, it’s going to try and step up as far as it can. Until I installed a 5star tuner, it was a towing disaster with anything close to the max. Paint stripes on the highway would cause it to try and downshift(a little sarcasm, but not by much). It was constantly searching for a gear at speed, and banging into gear when it decided what it was going to do.
Tow-Haul mode is more cute then real, but it is better then nothing.
I’m not affiliated with 5star in anyway. I will say though, it fixed my trannies desire to upshift to soon, and, its problem of getting lost until it slammed into gear. With the same amount of accelerator now, it easily stays in gear until I’m well over 3000rpm, where it was trying to upshift around 2k before. Shifts are positive and quick.

Suspension is vital, if your pushing your ‘school kid carrying grocery getter’ to pull any real weight.
Most PU’s have a softer ride on purpose. It’s more comfortable. It does fine with a bass boat or lawnmower trailer, but if you’re going to drag serious weight, then do something to help the back end. The heavy duty load assist shocks with the little coil overs, aren’t that.
The Max tow packages have additional spring help on purpose. If you aren’t going to try and duplicate it, your effort to tow a big trailer isn’t going to go well. I have the regular trailer tow package on my F150, but experience with the cushy ride concept has encouraged me to run the RAS(Roadmaster Active Suspension) on my last three Fords. 2 of these were E250 extended vans that behaved more like I was herding the van down the road, then driving it. The RAS, cured it. It was the first thing I installed on my new F150 with the Trailer Towing Package, before I ever hitched it to anything.

https://activesuspension.com/

Heavy trailers need a WDH. it’s just that simple. What you can get by with, with a 3/4 ton without one, will be mandatory for a 1/2 ton that’s getting into the upper end of its abilities. Don’t leave home, without it.

You can tow weight with a 1/2ton, if you spend the money to make it work. Don’t cut corners and blame the truck. There’s a reason people step up to a 250 or 350. It takes a lot of the guess work out of the job. It’s the simplest solution. You don’t have to baby the truck as much.
If you have a 1/2 ton and plan to use it, set it up correctly, and learn how to drive it, not beat it to death..........or take the hammer approach, and get a bigger truck.
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:35 PM   #77
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I have the same set up on my Ram and Coachmen trailer, I know exactly what you mean. I wondered if the 3/4 would make a difference. Thanks
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:38 PM   #78
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Hey y'all. This post is for anyone considering a larger 1/2 Ton Towable unit and plan to use their 1/2 ton to tow. I can't speak for anyone else's experience but I thought I would share my experience with 1\2 Ton Towables.

I bought a Coachmen 292BHDS 29' TT (6700 dry, 7000ish loaded, 7600max) last year and worked all the numbers to make sure that my Ram 1500 could handle it. It was a lengthy calculation process that included TV GVWR, GCWR, TT GVWR, TV payload, tongue weight, and effects of w/d hitch. After the pencil dust settled I was within MYcomfort zone. What I realized is that there is a big difference between theoretical(numbers) and actual(reality). Yes, the Ram could tow it.

What I mean by that is that it could pull the trailer comfortably on slightly uneven ground at 45 to 50 mph. But if you plan to take it on the highway at 60-65 mph or tow in the West it became a totally different animal.

So, here was my experience. The Ram performed admirably for how much it was hauling. But I quickly found it's limits here in AZ. We towed the TT to WA, UT, CA, and locally in AZ. Routinely the oil temps ran in the 260-280 range and really scared me when I saw 295! We pulled up a 6 degree grade for several miles at OAT of 90+, elevation 6000', and the Ram ran out of HP. We finished the hill in 2nd gear, crawling at 20 mph, engine roaring, watching oil temp approach 300. Lesson: get more momentum on long grades and stay in high RPMs. Addition: aftermarket oil cooler. Average mpg: 8

The Coachmen is a great trailer. We love it. But it is 33' from tip to tail. Plus about 20' of truck means approx. 55' total length. The standard fuel island now becomes a challenge. We seriously used aerial recon(google satellite maps) before stopping for fuel. I got stuck once. Not fun. But 55' also catches a lot of wind. Every ripple from passing trucks and semis or x-winds was noticable. Down hill in a x-wind with semis passing? White knuckle Disneyland adventure ride!! Tail wagging the Dog. Lesson: get another sway bar(makes 2). Level the ride. Addition: rear air bags and another anti-sway bar. Hellwig rear roll bar for Ram.

After a year, we finally decided to trade in the Ram 1500 Hemi for a Ram 2500 Diesel(don't even think about getting into that discussion!!). Every time towing the trailer with the 1500 felt like the suspension was swimming down the highway. The new TV? HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! No more sway, no more power outages, no more suck-you-in-spit-you-out from passing trucks, no more squishy suspension feel. Rock solid now. MPG: 23 unloaded, 11ish towing.

I know what you're thinking: But the 1/2 ton CAN tow it and it's so expensive to go to a 3/4 ton! Trust me. Don't make my mistake. Pony up and get a 3/4 ton. Or else look for a TT WELL BELOW YOUR MAX TOW! It's no good getting to your campground worn out and nerves a wreck. Your marriage and kids will thank me.

The Verdict: 1/2 ton towables are towable by 1\2 tons. But limited in serious ways. Speed, grades, temps, winds, all are operating limitations for all TVs but especially for 1/2 tons. IMHO. Discuss.
That’s what you get for buying a Dodge. I have a Ford eco-boost F1 50 with 373 gears max tow 10 ply tires.. it tows my 829fkss like a dream. Through the maritime Provence’s, adirondacks, pa, WVA, the Great Lakes... I would have no problem taking you out west with this truck.
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:43 PM   #79
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Just coming back from a 4,000 mile nine state trip with no problems. My Ram 1500 and 5th wheel trailer worked out just fine.
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:52 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by katkt View Post
Kinda long, and filled with personal observations.

I think the biggest problem most people have when trying to tow a TT with a 1/2 ton PU, is pretty glaring in the OP. The Ram he was driving, was never set up to tow anything beyond a bank note and or a small trailer, for say, something like a lawnmower or jonboat.

If you’re going to tow a heavier TT with your 1/2 ton PU besides a short pull to a local campground, it’d better have a few basics.
Auxiliary trans cooler.
Decent brakes.
A rear axle ratio at least midway between 3. something and 4. something. Closer to 4. something is best the heavier you get.
Decent tires, that can be inflated to something that will carry a load other then groceries.

You need to understand, gassers make all their power with rpms. Modern PU’s, are purposefully geared towards the idea of fuel economy. The lower the rpms, the less fuel they use. The downside to this, is that your F150 Ford isn’t making all of that 300+ horsepower until your approaching 5000rpms. It’s called a power band. On a Dyno chart, the big hp and torque, is at the peak of the curve. That’s not 1500rpms.

Just because your tranny wants to upshift, and your speed is increasing, it doesn’t mean you should let it when pulling a grade with a load. As soon as it upshifts the rpms drop, and your mighty “I take my kids to school in this truck” just lost the 50 horses and torque it needed to pull that grade. Now all of a sudden, your losing speed, until you force a downshift. Diesels make googobs of torque at low rpms. Gassers don’t. Find your trucks power sweet spot on a long grade, and keep it there, even if it’s a bit slower then you like. The truck that is constantly upshifting anytime you get within arms reach of 2k, is going to sound like it’s on the verge of disintegrating at 5k. It takes some getting used to. Max power is going to be well below the redline on a factory specimen.

The factory shift points are just not set up for any serious weight hauling with a 1/2 ton truck. That has been my experience with my 2010 F150. The truck’s brain has been preset, to upshift anytime it gets close to 2k. You can force it to stay in gear by keeping your foot on the gas, but as soon as you ease up, it’s going to try and step up as far as it can. Until I installed a 5star tuner, it was a towing disaster with anything close to the max. Paint stripes on the highway would cause it to try and downshift(a little sarcasm, but not by much). It was constantly searching for a gear at speed, and banging into gear when it decided what it was going to do.
Tow-Haul mode is more cute then real, but it is better then nothing.
I’m not affiliated with 5star in anyway. I will say though, it fixed my trannies desire to upshift to soon, and, its problem of getting lost until it slammed into gear. With the same amount of accelerator now, it easily stays in gear until I’m well over 3000rpm, where it was trying to upshift around 2k before. Shifts are positive and quick.

Suspension is vital, if your pushing your ‘school kid carrying grocery getter’ to pull any real weight.
Most PU’s have a softer ride on purpose. It’s more comfortable. It does fine with a bass boat or lawnmower trailer, but if you’re going to drag serious weight, then do something to help the back end. The heavy duty load assist shocks with the little coil overs, aren’t that.
The Max tow packages have additional spring help on purpose. If you aren’t going to try and duplicate it, your effort to tow a big trailer isn’t going to go well. I have the regular trailer tow package on my F150, but experience with the cushy ride concept has encouraged me to run the RAS(Roadmaster Active Suspension) on my last three Fords. 2 of these were E250 extended vans that behaved more like I was herding the van down the road, then driving it. The RAS, cured it. It was the first thing I installed on my new F150 with the Trailer Towing Package, before I ever hitched it to anything.

https://activesuspension.com/

Heavy trailers need a WDH. it’s just that simple. What you can get by with, with a 3/4 ton without one, will be mandatory for a 1/2 ton that’s getting into the upper end of its abilities. Don’t leave home, without it.

You can tow weight with a 1/2ton, if you spend the money to make it work. Don’t cut corners and blame the truck. There’s a reason people step up to a 250 or 350. It takes a lot of the guess work out of the job. It’s the simplest solution. You don’t have to baby the truck as much.
If you have a 1/2 ton and plan to use it, set it up correctly, and learn how to drive it, not beat it to death..........or take the hammer approach, and get a bigger truck.
My 2014 ECO has maxtow 373 gears 10 ply tires etc.. It also has manual shift mode to hold gears and tow haul mode. If you have never towed with a properly 3.5 eco, do not judge it. It out pulls my 2000 5.4, 2005 5.4, 2oo8 50 and my 2011 5.0... Nothing beat my 2002 6.8 F250 but the F250 sucked for ride, turning radius and definitely fuel economy. All of my fordsexcelled in repair reliability..
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