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09-24-2011, 08:02 PM
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#1
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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1st Time Out With Reese Dual Cam
Out for the first time today
I weighted the truck by itself (including us) : steer axle: 3200 lbs
Drive axle : 2600 lbs
Gross weight: 5800 lbs
With trailer attached:
Steer axle : 3380 lbs
Drive axle: 3420 lbs
Trailer axle: 5040
Gross weight: 11840 lbs
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My truck gvwr 6700 lbs
Total vehicle GCWR 14000 lbs
Total vehicle max loaded trailer weight rating 8450 lbs
Total vehicle max tongue weight rating 1045
Total vehicle RGWR 3900
Dry tongue weight on trailer 750 lbs
So what does this all mean??
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-24-2011, 09:29 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Stromsburg, Nebraska
Posts: 1,682
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It looks like you may need to adjust your wdh....assuming you have one.
__________________
Joel and Teresa
2016 Sabre 34TBOK
2006 GMC 3500 CC LB DRW 4X4
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09-24-2011, 09:42 PM
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#3
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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Reese hp dual cam wd/sway control hitch 800 lbs trunion bars
How do you mean adjust the hitch?
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-24-2011, 09:54 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,031
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With a dry tongue weight of 750lbs. your bars to the WDH might be too weak.
__________________
Terry and Janet
2008 3001W Windjammer
2007 Ford F150
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09-24-2011, 10:12 PM
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#5
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caper
With a dry tongue weight of 750lbs. your bars to the WDH might be too weak.
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It drives well but are you saying the the numbers on the scales are not distributed properly? I really don't understand what numbers i should be looking for.
The shop had both the 1200 and 800 and i told the ownerthe tongue weight and he tought 800 would be enough, he was concerned the 1200 would give me too stif a ride
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 06:49 AM
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#6
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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If boubou has added 180 lbs. to the front of the truck, then the bars are not too weak.....he is getting plenty of weight distributing. But the truck with trailer is adding 1000 lbs. to the truck.....and that is with a WDH. That indicates that the "real" tongue weight is probably in the 1200 lb. range, and 800 lb. bars would not distribute that kinda weight. If I remember correctly from a previous post, the bars looked good with a slight bend. Something just ain't adding up here.
Some other concerns. The total weight of the truck with the trailer is 100 lbs. over the GVWR.
boubou, were the 2 weigh-ins done with the same truck loads with and without the camper ?? If you loaded cargo to the bed of the truck with 1 reading and not the other, then that is going to skew the readings. My gut feeling is that the truck was empty when you did the solo weigh-in, and the truck was loaded with cargo when the trailer was added.
What is the FAWR (found on the drivers door) ??
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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09-25-2011, 07:06 AM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtstromsburg
It looks like you may need to adjust your wdh....assuming you have one.
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Since the weight on the front axle increases when adding the trailer, that is an indication that a WDH is being used. If no WDH was used, then the front axle would be much lighter when the trailer was added.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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09-25-2011, 08:00 AM
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#8
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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I don't understand.
I should have weighted the tongue weight too :/
Yes i weighted the truck with just me in it and then added the weight of extra person and dogs to m y numbers. I only added 2 small bags with us in truck, maybe 30 lbs worth, and i had a full thank of gas on first weigh in and maybe 3/4 full the second. I can't imagine that would make that big of a difference?
Number in driver door yellow sticker is 1266
Brigitte
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 08:00 AM
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#9
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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What does it all mean
BouBou asked what the numbers mean to him.
I will try to answer the OP's initial question.
To do so I will use his numbers as weighed.
Truck loaded for camping w/o camper connected: 5800 pounds
Truck Max gross weight allowed: 6700 pounds
Combined weight as weighed: 11,840 pounds
So, subtract 5800 from 11,840 to find total camper weight ALONE:
6,040 pounds loaded for camping
Optimum weight on tongue 15% of camper's weight: 900 pounds
Actual weight on tongue = Truck axles after minus truck axles before
6800-5800= 1000 pounds.
Adjusting the axle load using tension on the bars will shift that load from the front axle to the back axle using lever moment arm physics to share that adjusted load between the tow truck and the camper.
For simplicity, we will use the truck's load as if it was centered between the front and rear axles. and the camper's load as if it was centered between the camper's axles. Neither is actually "true" but it will give you the idea anyway.
For example, an overly "tight" WD bar will put more of the transferred weight on the front axle of the truck and the REAR axle of the camper. The reverse will make the back axle of the truck "heavier" and the front axle "lighter". The same effect will occur on the camper's axles.
The total load transferred however will be the same. 1000 pounds.
So, as stated initially, what does it mean,
1) The truck as loaded with camper attached is overloaded by 100 pounds (not too bad)
2) The camper weighs 6,040 pounds but no GVW was listed.
3) No posted max axle loads listed, but should be in the truck's documentation somewhere and I am camping without access to my library. No idea if the axles are overloaded or if moving that load around would be helpful or not.
4) He needed the 1200 pound WD hitch; not the 800.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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09-25-2011, 08:04 AM
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#10
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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Why would you think the real tongue weight to be in the 1200 lbs? The dry tong weight is 750 so i figured that was from empty trailer which makes it 14% of 5400 lbs. So if I take 6000 lbs loaded trailer and multiply 14% that makes 840
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 08:22 AM
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#11
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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Trailer GVWR 7650
TV RGAWR 3900
Pretty sure the front is also 3900
How can I change the weight on the 1000 lbs tongue? I need to bring this down to 900
And I'll get the 1200 lbs bars
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 08:28 AM
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#12
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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Even though we don't have much in the trailer, what if we move most of what's in the front compartment storage to the back of the trailer? Would that make the tongue weight lighter?
Maybe i shouod remove a propane tank? They are 30 lbs
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 09:10 AM
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou
Yes i weighted the truck with just me in it and then added the weight of extra person and dogs to m y numbers. I only added 2 small bags with us in truck, maybe 30 lbs worth, and i had a full thank of gas on first weigh in and maybe 3/4 full the second. I can't imagine that would make that big of a difference?
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By the added weight, do you mean that you added it on paper, or were the extra person, dogs, and gear added to the truck before the truck and trailer weigh-in ??? Adding the person and pets could contribute to the added weight on your front axle, and some to the rear axle. Depending on the size of person and dogs as well as the extra “bags”, that could skew the weights by a couple of hundred pound ( a 150 lb. person and 2, 75 lb. dogs is an extra 300 lbs !!!). So some of that extra 1000 lbs added to your truck which you think is tongue weight, could be possible passenger and cargo weight. If in fact you added 300 lbs., then that is an indication more of a 700 lb. tongue weight.
To do weigh-ins accurately, the same variables need to be incorporated. And if possible it is best to do it loaded for camping. All people, dogs, and cargo need to be in the same position during both weigh-ins get the most accurate figures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou
TV RGAWR 3900
Pretty sure the front is also 3900
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I doubt that. Most trucks have much less GAWR on the front axle than the rear. The FAWR (front axle weight rating) should be listed on the driver’s door….a simple matter to look up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou
How can I change the weight on the 1000 lbs tongue? I need to bring this down to 900
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With the incomplete information provided so far, I am still not convinced that you have 1000 lb. tongue weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou
And I'll get the 1200 lbs bars
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Might want to wait until you get all of this sorted out. You are getting weight distributed to the front axle…..1200 lbs bars can’t do any more than that. You do not want to overload the front axle.
Question:
Do your 800 lb. bars still look the same as in your album pictures ??? Those bars look good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou
Even though we don't have much in the trailer, what if we move most of what's in the front compartment storage to the back of the trailer? Would that make the tongue weight lighter?
Maybe i shouod remove a propane tank? They are 30 lbs
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That may help. I try to load my trailer heavy towards the rear. Removing a propane tanks which is around 55 lbs would help, but then you are making your camper less user friendly. Let's get a more accurate trailer tongue weight before doing something drastic.
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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09-25-2011, 09:11 AM
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#14
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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The more I think about it, the more stuff I can think of moving to the back of the trailer. From what I've been reading, most people tend to load up front of tt for extra tongue weight. Well, I had all food, dishes, blankets, loaded upfront each side of the bed.
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 09:15 AM
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#15
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 6,949
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You can, and should, balance the trailer by moving your cargo around.
You will find that the "right" TW percentage will vary according to the loads in the truck and the trailer. Its good to experiment to find what works for you.
Moving cargo to the back may work but can cause problems if you lighten the tongue too much; possibly contributing to sway.
The TW needs to be 10-15% of the weight of the trailer (I weigh my tongue with a Sherline scale). 13% seems to work well for me when I have the family in the truck. I experimented with an 11% TW but it didn't feel right.
You also need to make sure that your load is balanced side-to-side and this can be measured at your local CAT station if you want to know exactly.
__________________
Scott
DW, 3 Kids and our Goldens
2012 Shamrock 233S
2008 Toyota Sequoia 5.7L 4WD
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09-25-2011, 09:16 AM
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#16
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy
By the added weight, do you mean that you added it on paper, or were the extra person, dogs, and gear added to the truck before the truck and trailer weigh-in ??? Adding the person and pets could contribute to the added weight on your front axle, and some to the rear axle. Depending on the size of person and dogs as well as the extra bags, that could skew the weights by a couple of hundred pound ( a 150 lb. person and 2, 75 lb. dogs is an extra 300 lbs !!!). So some of that extra 1000 lbs added to your truck which you think is tongue weight, could be possible passenger and cargo weight. If in fact you added 300 lbs., then that is an indication more of a 700 lb. tongue weight.
To do weigh-ins accurately, the same variables need to be incorporated. And if possible it is best to do it loaded for camping. All people, dogs, and cargo need to be in the same position during both weigh-ins get the most accurate figures.
I doubt that. Most trucks have much less GAWR on the front axle than the rear. The FAWR (front axle weight rating) should be listed on the drivers door
.a simple matter to look up.
With the incomplete information provided so far, I am still not convinced that you have 1000 lb. tongue weight.
Might want to wait until you get all of this sorted out. You are getting weight distributed to the front axle
..1200 lbs bars cant do any more than that. You do not want to overload the front axle.
Question:
Do your 800 lb. bars still look the same as in your album pictures ??? Those bars look good.
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Yes bars still look good but 'ill take a pic next time i hitch (tomorrow).
Yes, numbers on paper and yes, i'll go weigh in again properly
And yes, (i just checked) and front axle is 3900 like the back. Does it have to do because it's a 4x4?
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 09:18 AM
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#17
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Brigitte
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kingston
Posts: 725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triguy
You can, and should, balance the trailer by moving your cargo around.
You will find that the "right" TW percentage will vary according to the loads in the truck and the trailer. Its good to experiment to find what works for you.
Moving cargo to the back may work but can cause problems if you lighten the tongue too much; possibly contributing to sway.
The TW needs to be 10-15% of the weight of the trailer (I weigh my tongue with a Sherline scale). 13% seems to work well for me when I have the family in the truck. I experimented with an 11% TW but it didn't feel right.
You also need to make sure that your load is balanced side-to-side and this can be measured at your local CAT station if you want to know exactly.
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Plenty tongue weight here, too much tongue is the problem. Gotta go back on the scales.
__________________
2013 Jayco Eagle HT 23.5
2010 Ram 1500 HEMI with integrated brake controller, tow mirrors and Michelins LTX/AT2 275/65R20 max load: 3750 lbs. @ 80 psi but we keep them 50-55 psi
Superglide 2700
Timbrens
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09-25-2011, 09:29 AM
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#18
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 6,949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou
Plenty tongue weight here, too much tongue is the problem. Gotta go back on the scales.
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Yea. I'm just saying that, in our desire to "make" our numbers, we sometimes lighten up too much and this can make an unstable towing rig.
11% felt unstable to me with my rig. Maybe something that low works well for you, though.
__________________
Scott
DW, 3 Kids and our Goldens
2012 Shamrock 233S
2008 Toyota Sequoia 5.7L 4WD
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09-25-2011, 09:29 AM
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#19
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Is this the floor plan of your trailer ??
__________________
Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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09-25-2011, 09:57 AM
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#20
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Site Team - Lou
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 23,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boubou
Why would you think the real tongue weight to be in the 1200 lbs? The dry tong weight is 750 so i figured that was from empty trailer which makes it 14% of 5400 lbs. So if I take 6000 lbs loaded trailer and multiply 14% that makes 840
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Since you did not weigh the combination with and without the WD bars installed; I used the "with" weights to come up with the distributed tongue weight of 1000 pounds.
Sum of hitched truck axles less unhitched truck axles.
Dry weights do not mean diddly as you are finding out.
10% - 20% is the min/max range of tongue weight for a TT.
Lighter the tongue = more camper sway
Heavier the tongue = more truck nose travel while driving.
Below 10% is dynamically unsafe as are tongue loads over 20%
15% is considered "optimum" for TT handling. For the record; 5th wheels need heavier pin weights for stability as well. 15%-25% of camper weight should ride on the pin (pick up truck bed) with 20% optimum.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
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