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06-20-2014, 09:24 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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2014 Dodge G Caravan Factory Tow Pack 2015 Ultra Light??
just purchased a new Ultra light 25K dry ... 33K loaded ... just upgraded from a 25k pop up ... the pop up towed great in all conditions. will i need sway and/or torsion with my new camper? .... is "friction sway" an option?? Voyager Electronic brake installed and the Caravan has auto leveling.
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06-20-2014, 09:36 PM
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#2
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,173
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I'm highly confused by your numbers. Around here 25000 lbs is getting into a semi kind of range. First, there's no way that your pop up was 25000. So I'm going to have to assume you meant 2500. In that case, I'm guessing your going from a 2500 lb pop up to a 3300 lb ultralight? And you're towing this with a Caravan?
Despite my wife's caravan having the same payload rating as my Ram 1500, I know there's no way hers could tow something that heavy. If yours can, great, but I know hers can't.
So be sure to get a good weight distributing hitch and good sway control. Something like the equalizer would have both built into the hitch and is highly recommended. The alternative is something like my Reese Pro, which has separate WD bars from the friction anti sway.
Driving a caravan though if yours sits as low as my wife's I'd think the equalizer is a better setup. The bars don't sit as low as my Reese and you'll probably want as much ground clearance as possible.
__________________
There's no use crying over spilt milk... unless it's on your keyboard.
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06-20-2014, 10:11 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 1,348
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I used a '97 Town & Country 3.8L to tow our 3000 lbs (loaded) popup camper for 6 seasons. When that camper got totaled, we replaced it with a 2000 Grand Voyager 3.3L for 2 more seasons. In both cases, I used a Prodigy brake controller (same one I still have now!), a friction sway controller, and a Reese 400 Single Bar WDH kit. TW was 375 lbs loaded. This was a very good setup for us, and for camping around Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, and once into Minnesota, we were never lacking for power. Your more modern minivan no doubt tows your smaller popup without drama.
My older Chrysler minivans required a WDH for trailers over 2000 lbs. I know very well that for the most recent RT-project minivans, they don't carry that requirement anymore. But if you are going to push the limits of your towing ability like this, I think it is a mistake not to use a WDH system. You say that you have auto leveling....does not matter! Your suspension may level itself, but the problem with all that TW on a light suspension vehicle is that a lot of weight is removed from the FRONT wheels (picture a teeter-totter). Air suspension does nothing to fix that problem. There is nothing all that different on new vs. old Chrysler minivans that would justify removing the requirement for WDH.
But the main problem is the air resistance. My minivan also carried a 32 square-foot frontal, and I think the new ones do, too. That can be met towing a popup (short and wide), or a utility trailer (tall and narrow). But a full height camper will be like pulling a barn door thru the wind. I think you will find the transmission constantly hunting to find the right gear to use to keep you moving on the expressway.
If you already have this trailer, I would recommend you find another tow vehicle like the new crossovers with about 5000 lbs capacity. The Durango V6 gets this stock. Explorer V6 gets this with HD tow package. Likewise the GM Acadia, Traverse, Outlook clones.
__________________
thebrakeman ('70), DW ('71), DD ('99), DD ('01), DD ('05)
2004 Surveyor SV261T (UltraLite Bunkhouse Hybrid)
2006 Mercury Mountaineer V8 AWD Premier
Equal-i-zer WDH (10k), Prodigy Brake Controller
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06-20-2014, 10:47 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
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I pulled a Roo 19 (about 3300 dry, probably 4000 actual) for a one season with a 2011 Traverse (3.6L V-6, 5200 lb tow capacity). I was NOT a happy camper. The front of the camper is just too big of a sail. Ran in 4th gear, 3100 rpm at 60mph on flat interstate. Down into 3rd gear with any kind of incline at all. I wasn't happy with that.
Bought a 2009 Silverado, 7500 tow capacity. I'm a lot happier now.
You're about 800 lbs lighter, you MIGHT be OK, but I've found it's not the weight, it's the DRAG.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)
2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
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06-21-2014, 04:24 AM
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#5
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,607
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BigEZ, you're going to need to post back some numbers that make sense.
if you're talking about pulling a TT with a minivan, then you won't be happy.
first of all, your Dodge has a frontal area limit that any TT will exceed.
and you need to check the van's manual for the hitch/towing amount that requires a WDH for.
your Autoleveling has nothing to do with the van's ability to tow a TT, instead of needing a WDH.
you need to post the make/model of trailer you're talking about.
25k and 33k don't make sense. and where did you get these numbers?
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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06-21-2014, 04:59 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 499
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Agree with need for more information. Most minivans have a 3500 lb max towing. It doesn't mean you can load the minivan with 4 kids and tow . Run the numbers and drive safe.
__________________
2006 Roo 23B hybrid
2006 Ford F150 4.6L
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06-21-2014, 07:23 AM
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#7
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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sorry guys .... drop the "K" we are talking 3300lbs.
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06-21-2014, 10:56 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
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Quote:
You're about 800 lbs lighter, you MIGHT be OK, but I've found it's not the weight, it's the DRAG.
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NOTE: When I said you MIGHT be OK, I was referring to "if you bought a cross-over" as suggested by thebrakeman. With the Caravan, you will be WAY over your limits.
And let me guess: The salesman said "Oh, any mini-van can pull this."
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)
2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
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06-21-2014, 03:14 PM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo
NOTE: When I said you MIGHT be OK, I was referring to "if you bought a cross-over" as suggested by thebrakeman. With the Caravan, you will be WAY over your limits.
And let me guess: The salesman said "Oh, any mini-van can pull this."
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the manufacture literature states that can be towed be most mini vans and small suvs
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06-21-2014, 04:40 PM
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#10
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 33,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEZ
the manufacture literature states that can be towed be most mini vans and small suvs
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another victim of advertising! i'm not laughing at you, just at how the RV industry sucks unknowledgable buyers in, with these outrageous statements.
you need to post which make/model of trailer you're talking about. we can't help you without having more info.
the trailer you're talking about may have a very low CCC and will always be at that 3300lbs. GVWR, which is only 200lbs. less than the max towing capacity, IF there's only a 150lbs. driver in it and nothing else. and you still haven't addressed the frontal area limit of your van, which is stated in its owner's manual.
only the SMALLEST of TT's can be towed by a minivan.
and they don't tell you that this is rated with an empty minivan with only a driver in it.
it's a "perfect scenario" statement.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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06-23-2014, 10:56 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 1,348
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bikerdan,
I agree that this is a close scenario on weight, and certainly not good from wind standpoint. But when it comes to the standard line of "MAX rating only available with empty minivan and only a driver"....that is NOT correct for most minivans.
Most trucks have such a strong frame, that the MAX rating is based on the powertrain. This is why going from a V6 to a V8 increases the tow rating on most trucks. The frame of a V6 pickup can handle more weight, but is limited by the powertrain.
It's the opposite for most minivans and many crossovers. The V6 powertrains in these vehicles can now handle much more than their tow ratings. But the unibody construction is the limiting factor. If you run the numbers on a modern minivan, you will find that there is enough GCVWR to be at MAX 3500 lb trailer weight, and still have 500 lbs or more available in the van.
__________________
thebrakeman ('70), DW ('71), DD ('99), DD ('01), DD ('05)
2004 Surveyor SV261T (UltraLite Bunkhouse Hybrid)
2006 Mercury Mountaineer V8 AWD Premier
Equal-i-zer WDH (10k), Prodigy Brake Controller
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06-23-2014, 11:07 AM
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#12
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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I'd have to "believe" that a mini van is the worst for cargo carrying capacity.
Much like our trucks the limiting factor is solely "ccc"
So to the o.p.
What is the cargo carrying capacity of your mini van?
On the tire sticker on the door jamb.
Weight this weight will include.
Tongue weight of trailer.
Actual hitch.
We system.
Sway control system.
Anybody and anything in the van excluding driver which will include.
Passengers.
Dogs/cats
And anything stored in the back.
Suit cases coolers duffle bags etc etc.
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06-23-2014, 11:07 AM
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#13
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Iowa
Posts: 34,507
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This sticker.
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06-24-2014, 09:24 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 1,348
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Sticker would be best, for info on this particular vehicle. But Dodge website shows 4510lbs base curb weight, and 6050lbs GVWR. Since that 4510 is shown for all models, I'm assuming that the absolute lightest Grand Caravan available, with no added packages nor options. So the difference (CCC) of 1540 lbs is certainly on the high side.
My '97 and '00 Chrysler vans had 8300 lbs GCVWR. mid-2000 went up to 8600, and I believe the most recent generations are at:
9000 lbs GCVWR
3600 lbs MAX tow rating
Put a 3600 lbs trailer behind this vehicle, and you have 5400 lbs available for the loaded van. That's 900 lbs over curb weight. Add however much you want for options and the driver, and you'll still have some left over.
__________________
thebrakeman ('70), DW ('71), DD ('99), DD ('01), DD ('05)
2004 Surveyor SV261T (UltraLite Bunkhouse Hybrid)
2006 Mercury Mountaineer V8 AWD Premier
Equal-i-zer WDH (10k), Prodigy Brake Controller
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