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Old 10-21-2015, 10:50 AM   #131
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My bud and I joke all the time about folks "overtowing".
Manufacturers give you a 10,500 tow rating on a half ton then give you P-rated tires. No bueno. How about your rear end? Hope that and the tranny are up to snuff.
Just because the motor can pull it and the book says so- doesn't mean you should.
I've seen heavy rear bumper weights bend truck frames- folks overtighten the load levelers so they are not dragging and banana the frame upwards.

I like having my tow rig heavier than my tow. Keeps me out of trouble.
Pushing 10k on a half ton- stay away from me...

(My screenname has a reason)
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:31 PM   #132
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If you aren't an engineer or versed in physics, or something that gives legitimacy to your overweight towing reasoning, you have ZERO leg to stand on in your argument. This crap sounds more like "keep the government out of my business" rather than actual logic.

Notwithstanding, if there's an accident and if it makes it to a trial, if your lawyer is worth his fee, he will want you to plea bargain rather than be crucified when they bring a subject matter expert from the truck manufacturer out to crush any chance you had of being not guilty. Plus any jury that hears you can tow X and you towed Y will reach a verdict in about 5 minutes against you.

When you are pulling, you're the boss. When she's pushing, you're in big trouble and THAT is what you have set yourself up for if you are over the limit. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. Once the tail is wagging the dog, the ride will quickly be over.

It's like wearing a seat belt. Your GCVW and such are just that, a virtual seat belt there to offer you a reasonable amount of protection. If you ain't following your tow guide, then don't wear your seat belt, either.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:11 PM   #133
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I pull my 300bh with thisClick image for larger version

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Old 10-23-2015, 11:00 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Malfunction View Post
If you aren't an engineer or versed in physics, or something that gives legitimacy to your overweight towing reasoning, you have ZERO leg to stand on in your argument. This crap sounds more like "keep the government out of my business" rather than actual logic.

Notwithstanding, if there's an accident and if it makes it to a trial, if your lawyer is worth his fee, he will want you to plea bargain rather than be crucified when they bring a subject matter expert from the truck manufacturer out to crush any chance you had of being not guilty. Plus any jury that hears you can tow X and you towed Y will reach a verdict in about 5 minutes against you.

When you are pulling, you're the boss. When she's pushing, you're in big trouble and THAT is what you have set yourself up for if you are over the limit. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. Once the tail is wagging the dog, the ride will quickly be over.

It's like wearing a seat belt. Your GCVW and such are just that, a virtual seat belt there to offer you a reasonable amount of protection. If you ain't following your tow guide, then don't wear your seat belt, either.
First of all, if your lawyer is worth 15 cents he'd pull up a towing guide, present it to the court and then ask the jury how many of them think they could with 100% certainty define what could pull what. I'd then bring out the ad from Toyota showing them pulling the space shuttle and ask how they think ads such as these might influence a persons perception of truck capabilities. I'd then cross examine that expert and point out example after example of changed towing and payload capacities with no explanation of where those numbers came from. Not hard to point out the hypocrisy of looking at a manufacturers rating as a line in the sand when that line often moves with no logical explanation. And as far as the seat belt analogy- I find it to be very weak. A seat belt is either on and functioning or not. Only 2 states. A vehicles load status is infinitely variable and its handling characteristics change as you increase load. It doesn't handle one way up until you reach GVWR and then go into a completely different state. You could be loaded to 50 pounds over and burn 8 or so gallons of fuel and now be under. I have a hard time believing there would be any discernible difference in a rig weighing thousands of pounds.
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:10 PM   #135
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I bought my first fiver last week and after installing a Reese sliding hitch, we took our camper out yesterday for a 180 mile test drive yesterday in our '13 F150 Ecoboost.

Comments:

I love my Roadmaster Active Suspension using black spacer, squat was equal to height gained by adding the RAAS.

Fuel economy was 9.8mpg. I'm very light on the throttle, keep a lot of distance to minimize braking on the interstate and allow for safe stopping distance, and kept the speed mostly at 60mph. Did a couple brief test runs up to 75mph and was satisfied with how things felt but will never exceed 65mph again when towing.

I"m a former Army helo pilot and keenly aware of weights and balances. With that said, I don't have a problem with towing at near max weights. Whenever I flew at max weight, we just did things a little slower and were more even more cautious with power management. Slowing down a 32,000lb bird with a 18,000 lb sling load under you to land is an interesting experience.

F150 did great. I was very happy with how the combination handled. Trailer weight was 8346 lbs with fresh water in tank and would be slightly more with groceries in the pantry and fridge. I need to get an actual pin weight for peace of mind to ensure we aren't over the truck's cargo carrying capacity. I'm estimating pin weight at 1300 lbs (factory says 950 lbs dry but add battery, 2 propane tanks, etc... at least fresh water tank is rear of axle. Its just my wife and I when we camp and I think we are ok. We removed the truck spare tire when we were installing the fifth wheel hitch and put it in the rear of the camper. That spare tire is heavy and I wanted the tire off to recheck the torque on the hitch mount bolts.

Power was adequate. Acceleration while towing was about the same as my first car, a 52 horsepower Renault Alliance with 1.4L engine...anemic but acceptable. I was happy in that I was able to maintain 55mph up 4% grades. I'll let you know next year how she does running the Ike Gauntlet when we tow to Glenwood Springs and back. I don't mind driving 40mph behind an 18w rig up a steep grade over 10k feet ASL.

Would I like an F250 or F350? You betcha! However, I am satisfied and am comfortable driving my setup. I towed my last camper, a 27 foot Trail Cruiser bumper pull with my wife's diesel Grand Cherokee (7200 lb tow rating) for 5 years and my current combo (F150/Wildcat 27RL FW) drives much better and I'm a bit more relaxed while driving it.

Ran into a "neighbor" at our storage unit on way back. He was double towing an old (i.e. heavy camper) that had a steel ATV trailer carrying 2 Polaris 850 ATVs (not that light)on the back of it. He was right at max combined gross combined vehicle weight rating. He had just driven this combo 305 miles from an elk hunting trip. He's been doing this for the past 3 years in his '12 ecoboost F150. He tows at 55mph on the flats and slower when climbing. In Colorado, his combo will keep up with the Kia's struggling at 35mph up Eisenhower tunnel.

All of the naysayers who own 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, shouldn't you be towing your popup campers with a semi-truck? :-)
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:51 PM   #136
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Skyline, I'm surprised you describe your performance as anemic at that weight. Even without the tune I have in my engine now, I always had plenty of power to pass under any conditions and at any speed. The truck has to be in a really hard, slow speed condition to shift below 4th gear, or I'm intentionally spanking it hard (just because I want to). All of this is with a 3.55 gear, pulling very similar weights as you.

Below 65 MPH, I will get 10+ MPG easily in all the terrains I've encountered from Florida to the Smokey Mountains at Shenandoah.


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Old 10-25-2015, 04:26 PM   #137
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Try some of these roads and then tell me if you still think acceleration towing 8500 lbs is the same where you live.

https://www.codot.gov/travel/maximum-grades-on-colorado-mountain-passes.html

I try not to exceed 3/4 throttle when towing at my altitudes (we camp as high as 11,300 ft) to extend turbos' life span. On my diesels I can exceed EGT if go pedal is mashed to floor.
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Old 10-25-2015, 05:16 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Skyliner View Post
Try some of these roads and then tell me if you still think acceleration towing 8500 lbs is the same where you live.



https://www.codot.gov/travel/maximum...in-passes.html



I try not to exceed 3/4 throttle when towing at my altitudes (we camp as high as 11,300 ft) to extend turbos' life span. On my diesels I can exceed EGT if go pedal is mashed to floor.

Point made! Interestingly, all the hype you see on this engine is in head-to-head match ups against other gas-burners at altitude when towing. I'm guessing the turbos are helping the "little engine that could" a lot.

http://youtu.be/8tEqwXrqzH4

The EGT would be a good question for a Ford engineer ... would like to know that myself. I've only been full throttle on mine once when loaded, and that was on I75 in southeastern Kentucky. I backed out of it because the speed just got too high before reaching the top of a 6% grade. Didn't want to carry that over the top.

I may check my tuner and see if the EGT is a parameter it can read.


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2013 Ford F-150 Ecobeast
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Old 10-25-2015, 06:03 PM   #139
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Agree on the f150 eval

MY 2013 f150 Platinum w max tow does a fine job pulling my Flagstaff 832IBK. This year we are on a trek to Panama City Beach via Hot Springs - so relatively flat road. Next year we hope to go to AZ so I'm glad to hear the grades dont pose much of an issue. Here is a link to an interesting application for those that may want to plan around grades. BTW - my stock TT tires are rated at 75 mph.
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:34 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Malfunction View Post
If you aren't an engineer or versed in physics, or something that gives legitimacy to your overweight towing reasoning, you have ZERO leg to stand on in your argument. This crap sounds more like "keep the government out of my business" rather than actual logic.

Notwithstanding, if there's an accident and if it makes it to a trial, if your lawyer is worth his fee, he will want you to plea bargain rather than be crucified when they bring a subject matter expert from the truck manufacturer out to crush any chance you had of being not guilty. Plus any jury that hears you can tow X and you towed Y will reach a verdict in about 5 minutes against you.

When you are pulling, you're the boss. When she's pushing, you're in big trouble and THAT is what you have set yourself up for if you are over the limit. Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. Once the tail is wagging the dog, the ride will quickly be over.

It's like wearing a seat belt. Your GCVW and such are just that, a virtual seat belt there to offer you a reasonable amount of protection. If you ain't following your tow guide, then don't wear your seat belt, either.
I always apply the unscientific "seat of my pants" factor in my final determination. After looking at all the engineering, weights and measures and any additional info I can find- the "seat of my pants" has the final call.

(And I will take the dually Dodge Cummins for a heavy tow over any F150)
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