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Old 06-01-2013, 12:14 AM   #21
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you are way out matched by this trailer. the dry tongue weight is 200 lbs over your available payload. If you go with your estimated loaded weight of 5800 lbs then you are looking at around 750 lbs of tongue weight which puts you 400 lbs over on payload. unfortunately each of those things you added to your taco added weight to the truck and decreased your payload. As stated above you will probably be over on RAWR and while some around here will go over on gvwr and payload they still abide by rawr. Another thing to look at will be your tire load capacity. Remember that if you try to correct the payload by shifting weight to the rear of your TH, you can and will create a very bad and dangerous sway condition that even a Hensley arrow won't be able to overcome.

now lets talk about that 4 cylinder engine. it is not gonna do well in hills/mountains of nc, va etc. You are not only going to struggle getting up them, you are going to struggle to maintain control coming down them. How do I know? I have been there in an outmatched TV that had a stated towing capacity way higher than it could handle. I was over on payload by about 200 lbs loaded and under overall stated tow capacity by about 2100 lbs. I had a v8 towing loaded 7000 lbs (dry 5700 lbs) TV rated for 9100 lbs. I was less outmatched than you and I could barely keep the rig on the road with a Reese dual cam and 20 yrs experience towing horses. The TV could barely make it up the 7% grades I encountered in VA and NC. Even worse was the downhill trek. When a trailer pushes you down a mountain you swear never to be in that situation again. you have half the engine, a lighter TV, and a TT that will be very heavy, heavy enough to give pause to some of the 1/2 ton truck lineup.

As for the dealership saying it will be fine, the salesman know nothing about truck specs. They would sell you a 13000 lb fifth wheel to be towed by a smart car if they could talk you into it. They have tried to talk me and many others of this forum into loads that were unsafe. in some cases they have succeeded, in others they have not. Either way, I think you are about to realize you made a very expensive and unsafe mistake by doing what you want and not listening to wisdom and reason. What will the wife say to that? My DH would not hear the end of it. Probably because he laid into me pretty hard for trying to spend thousands fixing a lost cause in my old TV only to trade it for the new TV.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:25 AM   #22
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Its a V6, not 4 Cyl.

The dealer said (and I have heard from others, but they could be wrong to) that the tounge weight of 10-11% (650-715lbs) (in the Tacoma Manual in my truck) is without a WD hitch. By adding the WD Hitch it should almost double that so the 750lbs tounge weight should not be an issue right? Is this not true?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:34 AM   #23
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sorry, thought i read 4cyl but still pretty much holds true for 6 cyl engine also. wrong about the TW. you should be between 13-15% of loaded trailer weight for correct tongue weight. At best a properly adjusted wdh will transfer 20% of the weight back to the trailer. figuring 750 lbs (13% of your guessed 5800 lbs) that would still be 600 lbs on the truck and 300 lbs over payload. Remember that the dry weights do not include propane, battery and dealer installed options so you will quite likely be heavier than 5800 lbs. Toy haulers tend to be heavy beasts.


the taco manual is generalized for all trailers . but the th, TT etc have to run a higher tongue wight than other kinds of trailers for stability.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:38 AM   #24
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This is where I am getting confused here.

Dosent the TW the manual talks about mean the Tacoma should not have more then the 650-715 lbs (without WD Hitch) on it? Well wouldnt the 600 lbs you mentioned above be lower then the 650-715 (without WD Hitch) so Im not sure where this 300 lbs is coming from?

Sorry for not understanding but I am trying here.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:56 AM   #25
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Manual: GAWR Axle Rear: 3,110 lbs.
Scales Today: Rear Axle (wet): 2,320 lbs.

31102320 = 790 lbs.

The specs on the Toy Hauler Sticker say:
Dry Hitch Weight 574 lbs.
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 4,142 lbs.

So they are calculating the Tongue Weight (Hitch Weight) at 14% so we will according to that sticker so we will use that.

5,800 weight for the Toy Hauler Wet (let’s say the prop tank is empty and no battery because I don’t have those real numbers yet)
5,800 @ 14% = 812 lbs. Tongue Weight from the Toy Hauler fully loaded

So now lets do the final math:
790 lbs. (Rear Axle still available) – 812 lbs. (TW from Toy Hauler loaded) = -22 lbs.

So I am about 22 lbs. over for the rear Axle Weight. But by removing the spare tire from the truck under the truck bed behind the rear axle and moving it to the rear of the hauler or leaving it behind at the house should cover this -22lbs because the tire is more then 22 lbs.

Am I not understanding or missing something still?
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:06 AM   #26
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ok let me explain the weights to you. The scaled weight of the taco is what everything will be based on not the factory weight that the book numbers come from. The manual numbers are for best case scenario, in stripped model with 150 lb driver only. Anything above that gets added into the payload which is why we had you weigh your taco loaded for a trip. Now take the scaled weight of the taco and subtract it from the gcwr to get your adjusted towing capacity. Next take your scaled weight and subtract it from the taco gvwr to get available payload (this is what you have not used up yet with passengers and gear, etc). The tongue weight is weight added to the truck and must be accounted for in the gvwr of the truck (in other words subtracted from your payload). What the truck was originally rated for becomes null and void as objects and people are added to a vehicle. The max RAWR is the most weight you can put on your rear axle. When you hook to your trailer it adds weight to your axles. The wdh shifts some of that weight forward (ideally to have the front axle weigh as close to no trailer weight as possibe without being heavier). Even with shifting that yet to be determined weight you are still loading your rear axle and putting weight on both axles still adds weight to total truck weight or gvwr. In addition to these numbers you have hitch ratings for load bearing (no wdh) and weight distributing. Different class hitches are rated for different weights. most likely you have a class 3 or 4 hitch. The weight ratings will be stamped on it. The reason why you lack the ability to carry as much tongue weight as that states is because that rating is for that piece of equipment and not the truck. in other words your hitch is rated for the same weight whether its strapped to a vw bug or a 1 ton dually. The limiting factor will always be whatever your weakest component is (whether its tires, brakes, frame etc we don't know but manufacturer has the items rated for your trucks gvwr and rawr). ok, is it as clear as mud yet?
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaQuest View Post
Manual: GAWR Axle Rear: 3,110 lbs.
Scales Today: Rear Axle (wet): 2,320 lbs.

3110 Ė 2320 = 790 lbs.

The specs on the Toy Hauler Sticker say:
Dry Hitch Weight 574 lbs.
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 4,142 lbs.

So they are calculating the Tongue Weight (Hitch Weight) at 14% so we will according to that sticker so we will use that.

5,800 weight for the Toy Hauler Wet (letís say the prop tank is empty and no battery because I donít have those real numbers yet)
5,800 @ 14% = 812 lbs. Tongue Weight from the Toy Hauler fully loaded

So now lets do the final math:
790 lbs. (Rear Axle still available) Ė 812 lbs. (TW from Toy Hauler loaded) = -22 lbs.

So I am about 22 lbs. over for the rear Axle Weight. But by removing the spare tire from the truck under the truck bed behind the rear axle and moving it to the rear of the hauler or leaving it behind at the house should cover this -22lbs because the tire is more then 22 lbs.

Am I not understanding or missing something still?
you are getting there

Now with the wdh some of that weight will be transferred to your front axle. the only true way to know the rawr numbers with th will be to hook it up loaded and weigh it.

Also look at your payload. So taco gvwr 5500 lbs - scaled weight 5120 lbs = 380 lbs available payload.

gcwr 11,170- scaled weight 5120=6050 lbs left for adjusted towing capacity.

now one thing not accounted for in all of this, how much does that Spyder weigh? Typically people add 1000-1500 lbs to a trailer above optioned weight, in toy hauler you need to add the toys weight in also.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:19 AM   #28
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ok went bak and found your 1200 lbs or toys so really you are looking at adding realistically 2200 lbs to the 4100 + dry weight. So really we are talking 6300 lbs not 5800 lbs


so 14% of 6300 lbs is 882 lbs. Take 80% of 882 lbs is 705 lbs on truck (other 20% to th remember) plus approx 100 lbs for all the wdh parts puts you back to 805 lbs.

I'll let you try to redo the math from here. Ive been up since 6 am and have to be up in the morning for my dd 6th birthday.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:19 AM   #29
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you are getting there

Now with the wdh some of that weight will be transferred to your front axle. the only true way to know the rawr numbers with th will be to hook it up loaded and weigh it.

Also look at your payload. So taco gvwr 5500 lbs - scaled weight 5120 lbs = 380 lbs available payload.

gcwr 11,170- scaled weight 5120=6050 lbs left for adjusted towing capacity.

now one thing not accounted for in all of this, how much does that Spyder weigh? Typically people add 1000-1500 lbs to a trailer above optioned weight, in toy hauler you need to add the toys weight in also.
The 5,800 lbs number is with the Spyder and R1:

Spyder = 699 lbs. (with full tank)
R1 = 450 lbs. (with full tank)

So I calculated 1,200 lbs for the Spyder and R1 (with a little extra in that number just incase)

---------
On a side note, what if I remove the tail gate from the truck when hauling.... LOL
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaQuest View Post
  • Leave the Spare Tire from the trailer behind (since it has 2 axles)
  • Leave the Spare Tire (Full Size) from the truck (the tire is located under the truck behind the rear axle)
Neither is a good idea. A flat is a flat, whether on a 2 axle trailer, or a 1 or 3 axle trailer. You don't drive with a flat.......it will ruin the wheel, and beat the side of the trailer and the wheel-well, even possibly doing damage to the inside of the trailer when the wheel-well disappears.
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