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Old 03-02-2016, 07:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by The_Rhino View Post
However, I found that for the weight TTs gave us much more room that 5ers...
That is a true statement. While my 2500's 5th wheel rating was 15,500 pounds and my bumper tow rating was 12,000 pounds; when you consider the pin weight restrictions vs the tongue weight restrictions, I could have bought and safely towed a much larger travel trailer (9500 pound GVWR 5th wheel vs a 12,000 pound Travel Trailer).
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Admiral_Roo2 View Post
Thanks Herk, CaptnJohn and Turb, good info. from all. Herk, I agree with you completely. I learned the hard way to generally stay below the stated limits, the difference between "it'll do it" and "should it be doing it?" can be painful and dramatic. This is how I ended up with a 2500 for the 6k lb trailer we have now. I just wanted the payload breathing room and plenty of stability after having our V8 pathfinder yanked all over the place above 45 mph. Based on the chart below what is the legal target to go by as I look at other pull behinds and smaller 5ers for the future?

From Chrysler website for my truck:
Axle: GVWR: Payload: Base Wt: GCWR: GAWR Ft: GAWR Rear: Max Trailer:
3.73 8800 2490 6300 15000 4750 6010 8550
4.10 8800 2490 6300 18000 4750 6010 11550
It doesn't matter that 4.10 has a greater trailer weight then 3.73. If your truck came with 3.73, it is certified for 8550. You changing the gear ratio to 4.10 still certifies your truck at 8550. Nothing you can do to the truck will increase the certification.

It's how the truck leaves the factory that matters, not the changes you make. That doesn't mean the truck can't handle it, it just means legal towing weights are 8550 and will always be 8550.
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:00 AM   #23
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What's funny is that some people don't realize every reduction in ccc.
Running boards/ step tubes.
Subs / amps.
Bed caps/ bed covers
Bed liners.
Aux fuel tanks and fuel
Bigger wider tires and rims.
5th wheel hitch .
5th wheel hitch mounting system.
All that stuff adds up man!
Dogs , cats , passengers, coolers , firewood, bicycles, generators, trailer blocking
Oh I could go on!




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Old 03-02-2016, 09:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by TURBS View Post
What's funny is that some people don't realize every reduction in ccc.
Running boards/ step tubes.
Subs / amps.
Bed caps/ bed covers
Bed liners.
Aux fuel tanks and fuel
Bigger wider tires and rims.
5th wheel hitch .
5th wheel hitch mounting system.
All that stuff adds up man!
Dogs , cats , passengers, coolers , firewood, bicycles, generators, trailer blocking
Oh I could go on!




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Truth!
Just imagine how overloaded most minivans are!!! Scary
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:52 AM   #25
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Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
That is a true statement. While my 2500's 5th wheel rating was 15,500 pounds and my bumper tow rating was 12,000 pounds; when you consider the pin weight restrictions vs the tongue weight restrictions, I could have bought and safely towed a much larger travel trailer (9500 pound GVWR 5th wheel vs a 12,000 pound Travel Trailer).
I think Rhino's assessment lines up with the math I've been doing. With this truck if I'm going to maximize camper I'll need to stick with pull behinds, and I'm ok with that. Existing hitch is good to go, existing RV port is good to go and I retain the bed of the truck for storage etc. On top of that I come from a long line of trolls, so reaching the higher cabinets in 5ers can be challenging, LOL!
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:58 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Roo2 View Post
I think Rhino's assessment lines up with the math I've been doing. With this truck if I'm going to maximize camper I'll need to stick with pull behinds, and I'm ok with that. Existing hitch is good to go, existing RV port is good to go and I retain the bed of the truck for storage etc. On top of that I come from a long line of trolls, so reaching the higher cabinets in 5ers can be challenging, LOL!
I have not much to contribute to this but I agree with you 100%

This past weekend we were at an RV show checking out 5ers (just for s and g's). I found a few I'd feel good with pulling with a 2500 but many if not all need (IMO) a 3500 or above to get them where I feel good. At this stage I think we agree... Bumper pull gets more bang for the bunk for what WE want as well.
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
That is a true statement. While my 2500's 5th wheel rating was 15,500 pounds and my bumper tow rating was 12,000 pounds; when you consider the pin weight restrictions vs the tongue weight restrictions, I could have bought and safely towed a much larger travel trailer (9500 pound GVWR 5th wheel vs a 12,000 pound Travel Trailer).
The manufacture get those numbers using 15% of 5er weight 15,500 X 15% = 2,325 pin weight. I don't think you could find a 5er that weights 15,500 loaded ready to camp less than 22% to 23%. 15,500 X 22.5% = 3487 now you at the top end of F350 specs depending on the percentage (my last 5er had 24.1%) you could be into dual rear wheels specs. Most 5er will gain 1% to 3% loaded ready to camp. That just using the yellow sticker not account for hitch, passengers, or misc you load in your truck.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herk7769 View Post
Does your truck really weight 6300 pounds?

Run it across a CAT scale with a tank full of gas, the wife and kids along for the ride, and a sack of sand to represent the hitch, just for grins and see what your remaining payload actually is.
And then you can use a tool such as this to help figure out realistic camper weights:
Towing Calculator after getting weighed - Towing Planner

Quote:
Originally Posted by TURBS View Post
What's funny is that some people don't realize every reduction in ccc.
Running boards/ step tubes.
Subs / amps.
Bed caps/ bed covers
Bed liners.
Aux fuel tanks and fuel
Bigger wider tires and rims.
5th wheel hitch .
5th wheel hitch mounting system.
All that stuff adds up man!
Dogs , cats , passengers, coolers , firewood, bicycles, generators, trailer blocking
Oh I could go on!
I try to guide people down that route with this tool:
Towing Calculator based on Truck's Payload/CCC - Towing Planner

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWSWine View Post
The manufacture get those numbers using 15% of 5er weight 15,500 X 15% = 2,325 pin weight. I don't think you could find a 5er that weights 15,500 loaded ready to camp less than 22% to 23%. 15,500 X 22.5% = 3487 now you at the top end of F350 specs depending on the percentage (my last 5er had 24.1%) you could be into dual rear wheels specs. Most 5er will gain 1% to 3% loaded ready to camp. That just using the yellow sticker not account for hitch, passengers, or misc you load in your truck.
I agree basically with everything here except to say that sub-20% fifth wheels do exist. They're not normal which is why I rarely talk about it, but my 16,800 lb. camper is running at 17% pin weight.

Otherwise, I agree with everything that you said- especially about the dry weight pin percentage increasing as you load the camper.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ependydad View Post

I agree basically with everything here except to say that sub-20% fifth wheels do exist. They're not normal which is why I rarely talk about it, but my 16,800 lb. camper is running at 17% pin weight.

Otherwise, I agree with everything that you said- especially about the dry weight pin percentage increasing as you load the camper.
I agree that normal 5er will be over 20% and I just may find myself in 14000 plus 5er with lower pin weight than the advertise dry pin. My CAT scale weight only showed little over 1% gain lightly loaded.

My big double door fridge sits over the forward axle and all the pantry is over or behind the aft axle. The bedroom, bathroom, and one outside storage are behind the aft axle and 90% of kitchen storage is aft of the fwd axle. More shoes my puts in the bedroom the lower the pin weight but that cause a whole new set problems with light pin.

But under normal conditions this would probably be the correct advice: If you truck is rated to tow 11,500 5er you need to find a 5er with a 15% or less of the gross 5er weight on the pin. As percentages go up the amount you can tow goes down.

Example 11,500 x 15% = 1725 payload sticker or 11,500 X 20% = 2,300 payload or 11,500 X 22.5% = 2587 lbs pin weight. We're not even including hitch weight, passengers or misc stuff in the truck.
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Old 03-02-2016, 01:31 PM   #30
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Only bedroom and bath storage contribute to pin weight for the 2 of us and that is minimal. If I tow with full FW (tank at the rear) pin weight is too light!
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