2500 / fifth wheel weight guesstimations

[Admiral_Roo2]

I have a 2500 with 5.7l hemi. Was window shopping at the RV show yesterday and found a 5er that DW and I both loved. Weight was 10k, my truck is rated up to 11500 if I change rear axle gear from 3.73 to 4.10 so I think that part would be ok. Two concerns, one is the website says tongue weight is 2100 which only leaves 400lbs of payload, other is will my rpms stay ramped up all the time moving that much weight whether I change gearing or not? Thanks.

[Crusadernoob]

Just because you change the gear's doesn't mean you can tow more. Legally, you can tow what the manufacturer states on the door sticker, realistically, that's not a "huge" fifth wheel by no mean's, but with a hitch and "stuff" you will be over, should the truck pull it, I think it should. People pull fifth wheel's of that size with a half ton and actually believe they are "good to go"

[bob caldwell]

2x2 or4x4?

[07 ThunderRoad]

The payload limit is because of the 17" tires. You can increase the weight rating of the tires by 900lbs by changing to the 2014 Ram 3500 srw 18" rims and better weight rated tires.
Install air bags, with onboard air compressor, for the rear end. Also install a Helwig rear sway bar for towing. I have done this for my 2007 Ram 2500 2wd and tow a 1500lbs 5th wheel with a Cummins 5.9 engine.

[asquared]

Remember that is a dry pin weight. Loaded pin weight should be 20-25% of the loaded fiver weight. Try adding 1500 lbs or so to the trailer dry weight to have an idea of what the loaded weight will be. You will likely 've over on payload. Figure 150 lbs easily for the weight of a fiver hitch. Subtract out the weight of all occupants, pets and cargo that will be in the truck when towing. That is what you have left for pin weight.

Best thing to do is go weigh your truck at a local truck scale. Weigh it fully loaded with all occupants, pets and gear that would 've in it when towing plus a full tank of fuel. Get separate front and rear axle weights. Take the rear GAWR and subtract the scaled rear axle weight. Your hitch plus loaded pin weight need to be less than this number. Take the truck gcwr and subtract the total scaled truck weight to get your adjusted towing capacity. Your loaded trailer weight needs to be less than this number. Take the truck gvwr and subtract the total scaled truck weight to get your available payload. Your pin weight plus hitch needs to be less than this.

Remember changing parts on your truck does not legally change it's gvwr.

[drittal]

I'm guessing the Weight of 10,000 is empty. Pin weight is empty.

If you tow, you will see 3,000-5,000+ rpm on hills and accelerating to highway speeds as your peak torque is over 4000rpm and horsepower over 5000.

What is the GVW of the trailer?

[ependydad]

You can best-guess the pin weight by using this tool:
Estimating Tongue/Pin Weight from Dry Weights - Towing Planner

It takes the dry weights and figured out what percentage the hitch weight is of the overall weight. Then it adds the weight in of what you'll add and spits out an estimate of what a loaded fifth wheel may run you.

It's not 100% accurate, but it's better than blindly guessing 20-25%.

[steelpony5555]

When going to a 5th wheel it is the wind and air you will be pushing not the weight itself. Even fuel mileage drops majorly on a diesel which can tow way more then that weight. Then if you get into wind your truck is gonna struggle no matter what gears you have.

[Herk7769]

And thus you see the dilemma of the older 2500's (low GVWR).

While you can PULL higher trailer weights; you can't carry the pin load.
Towing capacity numbers are with an empty base model truck.

I thought I was being smart by getting a diesel with the Allison transmission till I found out what that did to "payload remaining". All that power makes towing my 9200 pound camper a breeze, but that is the heaviest trailer I can tow because the pin load of 1400 pounds, wife, dog, and hitch max out the GVWR of the 2008 GMC 2500HD with those options.

I could tow more camper with the lighter stock gas engine because there would be more payload left.

Newer trucks have higher GVWR ratings and you will most likely be able to stay with a 2500 truck if you upgraded.

[Admiral_Roo2]

The truck is 2wd, factory tow ratings state that with a gear change it goes up from 8500lbs to 11500. I know the engine will be working hard on hills with either gearing but that's normal for a gas as it does that now with a full load and a 6k lb pull behind. Biggest concern is the payload which seems like it's going to be over with empty camper, 4 passengers and hitch weight and will just get worse from there as we load the truck and the camper / fill gas tank etc. This is something for down the road when the kids aren't going all the time and DW and I are able to travel more. Sounds like with this truck I'll need to look at larger pull behinds, or upgrade to newer / heavier rated truck to minimize risk and headache. Just don't like any 5ers smaller than the 34ft/10k lb range. Only confusing thing is I know several folks who tow a 10k lb fiver with an older 2500 gas, they state no issues. Another friend has an older 2500 diesel and pulls a 13k lb monster 5er and only added airbags. Based on the paper assessment they should all be way out of bounds but all state no issues...

[bob caldwell]

Gett'n 11.4, move'n 17,000 cross country, 3.42 gears

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Admiral_Roo2

Based on the paper assessment they should all be way out of bounds but all state no issues...

The funny thing about exceeding limits is there are always "no issues" until there are issues. Normally, it is too late then to do anything but cry. Hopefully it will only be about money.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Admiral_Roo2

I have a 2500 with 5.7l hemi. Was window shopping at the RV show yesterday and found a 5er that DW and I both loved. Weight was 10k, my truck is rated up to 11500 if I change rear axle gear from 3.73 to 4.10 so I think that part would be ok. Two concerns, one is the website says tongue weight is 2100 which only leaves 400lbs of payload, other is will my rpms stay ramped up all the time moving that much weight whether I change gearing or not? Thanks.

I'm sure if you look around you can find a floor plan you really like with a much lower pin weight. We sure did and found one at 1705. I have seen some good size 5ers in the 1200 - 1400 range on lite models. Start with the Cougar and Cougar lite models and there are lighter ones too.

[TURBS]

Flagstaff seems to have a light pin weight in there classic ultra super line.

http://www.forestriverinc.com/produc...212&Image=5046


2015 Columbus 320RS
2008 2500HD Duramax
2015 nights camped "34"

[Admiral_Roo2]

Thanks Herk, CaptnJohn and Turb, good info. from all. Herk, I agree with you completely. I learned the hard way to generally stay below the stated limits, the difference between "it'll do it" and "should it be doing it?" can be painful and dramatic. This is how I ended up with a 2500 for the 6k lb trailer we have now. I just wanted the payload breathing room and plenty of stability after having our V8 pathfinder yanked all over the place above 45 mph. Based on the chart below what is the legal target to go by as I look at other pull behinds and smaller 5ers for the future?

From Chrysler website for my truck:
Axle: GVWR: Payload: Base Wt: GCWR: GAWR Ft: GAWR Rear: Max Trailer:
3.73 8800 2490 6300 15000 4750 6010 8550
4.10 8800 2490 6300 18000 4750 6010 11550

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Admiral_Roo2

Thanks Herk, CaptnJohn and Turb, good info. from all. Herk, I agree with you completely. I learned the hard way to generally stay below the stated limits, the difference between "it'll do it" and "should it be doing it?" can be painful and dramatic. This is how I ended up with a 2500 for the 6k lb trailer we have now. I just wanted the payload breathing room and plenty of stability after having our V8 pathfinder yanked all over the place above 45 mph. Based on the chart below what is the legal target to go by as I look at other pull behinds and smaller 5ers for the future?

From Chrysler website for my truck:
Axle: GVWR: Payload: Base Wt: GCWR: GAWR Ft: GAWR Rear: Max Trailer:
3.73 8800 2490 6300 15000 4750 6010 8550
4.10 8800 2490 6300 18000 4750 6010 11550

You have nice payload rating. How many adults/ children in the family? What living arrangements ~ BH, 2 bedrooms? 1 bath OK? Those are the questions that may put you into either a 5er or TT. When you say "small" remember on a 5er the length is of the frame, not over the bed ~~ example my 303RLS has a 30' frame but the bedroom and bath are over the bed.

[Herk7769]

Does your truck really weight 6300 pounds?

Run it across a CAT scale with a tank full of gas, the wife and kids along for the ride, and a sack of sand to represent the hitch, just for grins and see what your remaining payload actually is.

[The_Rhino]

I have a 2011 Ram 2500 CC ST 2wd w/5.7L Hemi & 3.73 gears. It's stock and not a megacab, so I have a payload of 3,000 but the same 9,100 tow capacity & 15,000 GCVW limit due to the older 5 speed tranny. (In 2012 the main change was the 6 speed tranny & the GCVW was increased to 17,000 w/3.73 gears...)

Our 6,500 (empty) TT is 8,000 loaded & even with tongue weight of 1,300 we run-out of GCVW before we run out of payload... (With family of 5, fiberglass cap, and gear under the cap our payload averages 2,500 w/actual GCVW of just under 15,000...) However, even near our 15K GCVW the 5.7 Hemi w/5 speed tranny did great towing through the Smoky Mountains last summer & IMO a 8,000 (loaded) TT is a perfect match for this (/your) truck...

However, you are looking at a 10,000 (empty) 5er that is already 900 lbs. OVER your tow rating (of 9,100) BEFORE loading any gear AND within 400 of your payload, which will also be OVER once you add a good hitch, store some stuff in the basement, add people, etc...

So, IMO, this 5er is NOT a good match for your TV... Should you be in an accident, even one that's not your fault, any ambulance chasing lawyer can look-up the (empty) numbers & see that you were operating over the specs of your truck - specs that do not LEGALLY change if you swap gears, etc.

In comparison, if you find a 5er that is at least 1,000 under your tow rating which also has a manageable pin weight, then you will at least be legal driving it off the lot... However, I found that for the weight TTs gave us much more room that 5ers...

[drittal]

A lot of 2500 diesel guys

1) don't know about payload, tow capacity, or GCWR. They are told by the dealer your __________ (insert favorite diesel name here) will pull it just fine.

or

2) don't care because their __________ (insert favorite diesel name here) will pull it just fine.

and...

3) they all end up with airbags or live with bulldogging down the road.

What you are comfortable with doing is up to you.

I tow with a 6.4 and 3.73, but a 11k bumper pull. I think it does fine. Somebody used to towing with cummins probably wouldn't like it.

[drittal]

2015 Ram 2500 6.4 crew 4x4 s.b.
2015 Work and Play 30FBW
Wife, 2 kids, dog
2012 RZR 800 with rock mods
2012 Grizzly 550
18,500 gross (9200/9300)

Ive towed from 2200' to 8000'.
8.3 mpg hand calc.

Does just fine in my book.