2500HD to 3500HD conversion

[larrybessette]

I have researched my 04 Chevy 2500HD, 8.1 gas w Allison and 373 gears and the only difference between it and the 3500 is suspension. Same axles, same brakes etc. So I'm thinking about adding air bags, Sumo springs or something similar to increase the load carrying capacity and using the 3500 towing capacity as my limits. Make sense? Don't want to buy another truck.

[Maggot]

You could do the mod but you will never be able to pull a 3500 specs.

Just legally and technically it will still have the factory weight and towing numbers. Legally you will have to keep to them. In the eyes of the law and DOT what the factory tag says it what it is.



Maggot

[walaby]

While you can't change the sticker, if you feel comfortable towing with that extra weight with those mods, I'd say go for it.


3/4 tons are artificially capped at 10K GVWR. There's nothing legal about the little yellow sticker. Some folks swear by it, others take it as a data point, and make informed decisions based on their situation.


With my 5er, Im actually 20 lbs over on payload with my 1 ton SRW. But, Im under axle weight by a good 400 lbs. Im really not worried about it.


I've never heard of any one who was non-commercial getting a ticket for being overweight. Hell, I bet we've all seen the little compact cars with three or four larger than average people in it... Betcha they are exceeding the payload of the car too.


Mike

[Maggot]

Advising somebody to pull over weight is something I would not do.

Also wonder what the insurance company would say if there was an accident?





These people didn't get a ticket but..


I know maybe not the same and no mention of how it was determined over weigh.


July 01, 2008
By Dan Nolan
The Hamilton Spectator
Virginia State Police have determined a fatal crash that took the lives of three members of a Hamilton family was caused by their overweight trailer.

William Smith, 33, his wife Sandra, 35, and their daughter Kaylee, 7, were killed last Thursday night on I-77 when their vehicle and trailer went out of control and struck a oncoming tractor-trailer in the northbound lanes. Two other children, Madison, 9, and Genna, 3, are in stable condition at the Wake Forest University Baptist Centre in Winston Salem, North Carolina, and might be released into the custody of their grandparents as early as today.

“It’s been determined the weight of the trailer did cause the crash,” State Trooper O.J. Lilly said last night, adding it was a “terrible and tragic” accident. “It was fully loaded with all camping gear and bikes and everything you would haul. The camper was longer and heavier than the vehicle it was being hauled by.”

Smith, an HSR bus driver, and Sandra, who worked in the accounting department of Turkstra Lumber, were driving a 2005 Dodge Durango and it was pulling a 35-foot trailer that was built in 2004. The family, who had left their east Hamilton Mountain home Thursday morning, were on their way to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina with two other Ontario families. The accident occurred about 5.6 kilometres from a camp site where the three families were planning to spend the night.

Lilly said investigators have determined the vehicle and trailer were travelling down a four to five per cent incline on the Wythe County highway that stretches for about a mile.

“There was the down hill incline and in combination with the weight and the down hill . . . he hit the brake and the trailer started swaying on him. Once it lost control, it went into the median strip and then into the northbound lanes. Once the trailer started swaying . . . the further out of control it got and he just couldn’t hang on to it.”

Lilly said he spoke to the grandfather, John Poulton, and was told the two surviving girls may be released from the hospital today. Poulton and his wife Jane moved to Florida after retiring and travelled to Winston Salem after being contacted by police.

Lilly said the two other couples were “mentally in shock” after the crash, but assisted police with the two girls who were injured. They stayed with the girls at the local community hospital and then at the hospital in Winston Salem until the grandparents arrived.

Lilly said the Smith’s trailer weighed about 8,000 pounds when empty.

"Once you start throwing in bikes, camping gear and portable water tanks and sewage tanks, and propane tanks, that makes it heavier.” he said.

“This is something that happens, not everyday, but it happens from time to time,” he said. “It happens a lot especially during the summer months.”

Meanwhile, a trust fund has been set up by friends and family to help the Smith family pay for ongoing expenses such as medical bills, transportation, funeral costs and the long-term needs of Madison and Genna. The Smith Family Trust Fund has been set up at Hamilton Community Credit Union which has branches at 698 King Street East and Mohawk Road. The account number is 3196800, Branch No. 828, Transit No. 21152.

Funeral arrangements have not been announced.






Maggot

[67L48]

People do it all the time. Just look at how many 3/4 ton diesels there are pulling big 5ers. Way, way over their payload/GVWR specs.

Over on the Ford forum I frequent, there is a guy who accidentally ordered an F-350 diesel with the Canadian 9,900 GVWR derating. His payload was just over 1,500 lbs. Does that matter? Is he valid piling 3,000 lbs onto that truck?

You just have to determine if you're the kind of person who cares about specs or not.

[Mtelkman]

I converted my F250 to F350 specs. I don't pull more combined weight than the truck was rated for as a F250, but it does keep the rear more level when hitched then when I didn't have the extra spring. The F350 of the same year has a 9900 pound payload rating where the F250 only has 8800. That extra 1100 pound payload difference is noticeable unloaded by a bit more stiffness from the rear spring. I don't really notice any other difference.

[rracer5]

Forgive my limited information.

I have a fellow RV'er friend who purchase a new heavier 5'er. He did his research regarding his current 3/4 ton Chevy 4X2. Not wanting to have to purchase another truck (1 ton) he looked into and found a company near Tampa that would upgrade the suspension. He was told that in order for them to place an additional sticker on the door jamb documenting the upgrades, he first had to upgrade the E rated tires. He upgraded to G or H rated tires then took it in for the suspension work etc. They verified the new tires and that the wheels were properly rated for the additional PSI and performed the suspension upgrade (springs). They placed a machine printed sticker on the door jamb next to the OEM stickers.

Now, my disclaimer is that I did not inquire of him whether this company was certified by any Federal DOT to "legally" change the federally mandated certification that the OEM manufacturer placed on that specific vehicle. I also did not look very closely at the sticker to read its' contents nor did I get the name of the company. Just know that there apparently are companies/shops that do that type of work and have "license"? to do so.

[Blackrock]

Dunbar Spring in Phoenix is our go to guys for building up what you need. I used them a lot back in the 80's when we were lifting a lot of 4x4 trucks.
https://www.yelp.com/biz/dunbar-spring-inc-phoenix

[moose074]

I've never heard of any one who was non-commercial getting a ticket for being overweight. Hell, I bet we've all seen the little compact cars with three or four larger than average people in it... Betcha they are exceeding the payload of the car too.


Mike[/QUOTE]

Hey you stole my line. Glad I’m not only one to think that way.

[moose074]

I am willing to bet that equally equipped same manufacturer 3/4 ton vs 1 ton within 200 pounds of being same weight for the fords on this chart within 50ish pounds. So if engine, transmission, brakes, and tires, all the same. What is the magic 40 pounds that gives it the extra payload I wonder. Oh yea the springs

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by moose074

I am willing to bet that equally equipped same manufacturer 3/4 ton vs 1 ton within 200 pounds of being same weight for the fords on this chart within 50ish pounds. So if engine, transmission, brakes, and tires, all the same. What is the magic 40 pounds that gives it the extra payload I wonder. Oh yea the springsAttachment 208412

The VIN number also. And that don't lie.


I am by no way a weight cop. But if you go doing upgrades to a truck to make it tow more weight than the factory VIN relates to, then get out and something disastrous happens and the other folks bring in Saul Goodman things could go ugly. You can hear the argument about how Mr Truck Mod knowing modified a factory truck to knowingly put it on the road with more weight than factory specs.. blah blah.



And Mr Insurance guy saying Mr Truck Mod you modified a factory blah blah we are not covering you on this matter.


And this would be in a civil matter.


Not to mention a govt official getting involved in a criminal.


Not saying this will happen but a scenario like this could and would you really want to be this guy or the guy that said sure you'll be fine?

[Mtelkman]

In Maggot's example, stating that the insurance would deny coverage is a bit of a stretch. They don't deny coverage when an accident happens when you have different than stock tires on your car. Or different "upgraded" lights or suspension. Or if you drive drunk and/or were speeding. Just drive through any town or city in America and look at all the modified cars on the roads. It is practically an American tradition. People aren't being sued because their truck is lifted with bigger tires or their ricer is lowered with wide fat tires.

What the insurance company might do is cancel any future coverage but they often do that anyway even if you haven't modified anything. And I have yet to actually see where a privately owned vehicle in an accident have been towed to certified scales along with the cargo and passengers to determine if an overweight condition did indeed exist.

I am not promoting overweight towing, I just think that the worry of the weight police is often over sensationalized.

[DreiHunde]

Sometimes all you have to do is read the title of a thread and you just have to look because you just know....

[DreiHunde]

Originally Posted by walaby

While you can't change the sticker, if you feel comfortable towing with that extra weight with those mods, I'd say go for it.


3/4 tons are artificially capped at 10K GVWR. There's nothing legal about the little yellow sticker. Some folks swear by it, others take it as a data point, and make informed decisions based on their situation.


With my 5er, Im actually 20 lbs over on payload with my 1 ton SRW. But, Im under axle weight by a good 400 lbs. Im really not worried about it.


I've never heard of any one who was non-commercial getting a ticket for being overweight. Hell, I bet we've all seen the little compact cars with three or four larger than average people in it... Betcha they are exceeding the payload of the car too.


Mike

Agreed! Just stay under axle weights!
The 10K limit is set to keep the trucks listed as "light/medium" duty nothing more nothing less.

[Maggot]

Originally Posted by Mtelkman

In Maggot's example, stating that the insurance would deny coverage is a bit of a stretch. They don't deny coverage when an accident happens when you have different than stock tires on your car. Or different "upgraded" lights or suspension. Or if you drive drunk and/or were speeding. Just drive through any town or city in America and look at all the modified cars on the roads. It is practically an American tradition. People aren't being sued because their truck is lifted with bigger tires or their ricer is lowered with wide fat tires.

What the insurance company might do is cancel any future coverage but they often do that anyway even if you haven't modified anything. And I have yet to actually see where a privately owned vehicle in an accident have been towed to certified scales along with the cargo and passengers to determine if an overweight condition did indeed exist.

I am not promoting overweight towing, I just think that the worry of the weight police is often over sensationalized.

I only said could get ugly.



If a modified truck pulling more weight than the VIN happens to smash and wipe out a family, do you not think the police, lawyers and who knows who else will not investigate what was being towed and how?



And I am no weight cop. My take is taking a smaller truck and modifying it to pull more weight, then doing it is not a good move. Legally and by the VIN the truck will be over loaded.



That's all I have to say on this topic.

[DieselDevilDog]

We are looking into a Ram 3500 SRW to pull a 35 footer. I did the math and it's ok. And your right about Saul! Or Mr. Bernstein or Mr. Goldstein or any of the super rich attorneys that line up to get the business when something terrible happens.....don't give them a chance. They have enough money! ...............................................Die sel

[Wheelman]

My F250 Super Duty is more than adequate, from a weight position however the addition of air springs made a huge difference in leveling out my ride. As to making an F250 into a F350 I think you will find that the gear ratio may also be different in most cases.

[SQROOT]

I came across an upside down trailer and ford SUV also upside down in a road in new Mexico one time, person said that it started to sway and could not handle it. No one was hurt lucky, I have heard that there two ways to stop trailer sway, 1, fiction arm and 2, pull it out or speed up till it stops swaying. Have never tried the pull it out but have used the friction sway bar.

[Maggot]

When I was very young like 10. I cleaned and greased dad's friction sway bar. 39 years later he still reminds me of what a dumb thing that was to do.





The using the truck to speed up in a sway works if done right. Also it is suggested during a steer wheel blowout to speed up. It's physics and there are videos on it. Duckduckgo it they can explain better than I.


Maggot.

[larrybessette]

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately many make too big of a deal about it. I'm going from an 10,000lb 5er with a pin weight of about 2000lb to a 14000lb 5er with a 2400 pin weight (approximate 2100 plus gear). The trucks existing payload is 2808 w a 12,600 tow. Even without the mods I would be within my payload (close) and 1400lbs over with my tow.

Thanks everyone.