3.0-Liter V6 EcoDiesel

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Jeepup, 390,000 miles on my 14 ED as a transporter contracted with Airstream, Forest River, Gulfstream, and Fineline boats. To your question about a wet 7500 box TT. Yes it can tow it safely with stability & reliably if you do not “need” to trailer race up grades or into strong head winds. If you are good with towing a long 5–6% grades at 55 mph (still passing big trucks) or limiting sustained climb RPM to 3K. Otherwise you can run the temp as seen in the gauge cluster up to where the computer pulls fuel to slow you down and protect your truck from an overheat. Normally in the flats or rolling hills I run 65 with that load and will average 14.0 to 14.2 mpg on a multi state trip. At 65 unloaded you can get 30.

Merrykalia’s advice is well intentioned but stacking weight guesstimates toward a payload sticker number will not determine whether it will safely tow the load. Its an idea that is commonly but wrongly repeated on this forum. Unfortunately it’s an idea that is not very founded in the the laws of physics.

To actually make that load stable and safe to tow you want a properly sized WDH. Ideally with built in sway control. (Blue Ox, Husky, Equalizer) Expensive Pro Prop or Hensley are great but not required. With an an HD you would do 1000 pound weight transfer bars but with a soft half ton most get better results with a 14 or 1500 pound bars.

Then you will need to adjust your hitch and load, wet TT per cat scale results. You will want your steer axle weight for this truck to be at least 3300 ideally closer to equal to your drive axle weight. Drive axle weight should be kept at or below 3900 for this truck. Ram on the ram bodybuilder weights and towing site recommends 10 percent tongue weight for the 1500s. Common and stable tongue weight percentage is 10 to 15%

You’re towing payload is 6950. (The GVWR) If you’re unloaded truck weighs 5500 you only have 1450 to work with so taking 750 (10 percent of your 7500 TT) off leaves 700 pounds. If you only get your TW down to 11 percent than your TW is 825 & so on. You are not going to know until you work with it.

Tongue weight with a WDH confuses some people because it’s dynamic weight not static weight. Just the hitch foot on a scale might be 1,000 pounds but through a WDH your truck might only see 800 of that on its axle weights as the other weight is transferred back to the TT as will be seen in the TT axle weight numbers per your scale slips. That said the three most important numbers for stability is your steer weight, drive weight, & TW percentage. Then check your weight slip to make sure your CVWR, max tow, & GVWR are also in range.

For that size load you will have a better experience with 3.92 gear, factory trailer brake controller, a tune (GDE, PPEI) that includes software to turn your turbo into a brake for grade descent. Max CVWR for a 4th gen 1500 Ram is 15,950. I’ve cone down long 5 & 6 percent grades up to 15,800 per weight slip with zero drama. My original brakes lasted 293,000 still on my 2nd set.

For that load I would also suggest axle to frame air bags such as Timbergrove. They compliment your WDH just air them up after setting up your hitch. BTW you don’t need to scale & set up your hitch every time you go camping just initially to get it dialed in. This style air bag set up supports & helps control & dampen the suspension so their is not wallowing through rough curves or terrain. Just air them to desired ride & height when you are done on the scale.

Verndiesel:

I agree with your weigh statements but how is the OP supposed to know or estimate what his weights are before buying the trailer?

[VernDiesel]

Velosprout, The company I contracted with prefers but does not require a 3/4 ton. I live near the Airstream plant which only has bumper pulls all of which can be towed by my truck. For a backhauls I have to pick from the bumper pulls as the vast majority of 5ers are too heavy for my truck. Fortunately their is a fair amount of these. Fineline boats have been small enough as well. You end up a little over GVWR at times & then you just have to work with that. I bought the ED before knowing about this business. Starting from scratch I would recommend a bigger truck but this works well for me because of our contract with Airstream.

Dbldan, which weight estimates? Tongue weight toward GVWR? You can’t know a 100 percent but he would not know by stacking weight guesstimates toward a payload sticker either. What I do is take the trailer your looking at dry weight and add 1,000 pounds which is the most common wet weight then multiply that number by 12 percent for a safely attainable TW number.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Velosprout, The company I contracted with prefers but does not require a 3/4 ton. I live near the Airstream plant which only has bumper pulls all of which can be towed by my truck. For a backhauls I have to pick from the bumper pulls as the vast majority of 5ers are too heavy for my truck. Fortunately their is a fair amount of these. Fineline boats have been small enough as well. You end up a little over GVWR at times & then you just have to work with that. I bought the ED before knowing about this business. Starting from scratch I would recommend a bigger truck but this works well for me because of our contract with Airstream.

Dbldan, which weight estimates? Tongue weight toward GVWR? You can’t know a 100 percent but he would not know by stacking weight guesstimates toward a payload sticker either. What I do is take the trailer your looking at dry weight and add 1,000 pounds which is the most common wet weight then multiply that number by 12 percent for a safely attainable TW number.

Thx. Still struggling with ignoring payload weights. I guess the tongue weight estimate is where I got in trouble. I estimated tongue weight 12% (same as you) using the max trailer weight. I ended up at 16% for my trailer loaded to camp. I was over on my rear axle at the scale even with front close but I was under GVWR. I removed some stuff and redistributed some but it was not a fun ride before doing so.

In the end both are still just estimates and neither is perfect so I just ran both numbers because of my issue. the tongue weight guess really seems to be the problem. I just focused on payload because the rear was over on the ticket and GVWR was not. When I calculated payload I was over and now I am close.

Because my estimate on tongue weight was wrong both guesses would still be off.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Velosprout, The company I contracted with prefers but does not require a 3/4 ton. I live near the Airstream plant which only has bumper pulls all of which can be towed by my truck. For a backhauls I have to pick from the bumper pulls as the vast majority of 5ers are too heavy for my truck. Fortunately their is a fair amount of these. Fineline boats have been small enough as well. You end up a little over GVWR at times & then you just have to work with that. I bought the ED before knowing about this business. Starting from scratch I would recommend a bigger truck but this works well for me because of our contract with Airstream.

Dbldan, which weight estimates? Tongue weight toward GVWR? You can’t know a 100 percent but he would not know by stacking weight guesstimates toward a payload sticker either. What I do is take the trailer your looking at dry weight and add 1,000 pounds which is the most common wet weight then multiply that number by 12 percent for a safely attainable TW number.

I'm surprised you make it out of the weight stations / dot checkpoints when over weight. Them airstreams can be heavy!

[VernDiesel]

Keep in mind I’m not camping trailer is dry no propane water camping gear just me. With WDH and good set up I can meet all legal specs with even the new 33’ Classics.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Keep in mind I’m not camping trailer is dry no propane water camping gear just me. With WDH and good set up I can meet all legal specs with even the new 33’ Classics.

That's fine, you had just said you'd be over weight sometimes.

[VernDiesel]

Yeah occasionally on a back haul. Not an airstream on the way out.

[VernDiesel]

Dbldan, Mmmn.. maybe it’s just verbiage not trying to ignore payload. Just saying what I find best and easiest for estimating what my final TW should be aside from what might be put in the bed. If that is a reasonable match then the point is to put the emphasis where it first should be, axle weights & TW using WDH & WD via or per scale results.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Dbldan, Mmmn.. maybe it’s just verbiage not trying to ignore payload. Just saying what I find best and easiest for estimating what my final TW should be aside from what might be put in the bed. If that is a reasonable match then the point is to put the emphasis where it first should be, axle weights & TW using WDH & WD via or per scale results.

Yea in the end my issue was tongue weight estimation so either way does not really work to resolve it. I think I am coming around [emoji6]

[primo20]

if you're in the market for a new tow vehicle (i cant tell from your post whether you already own the eco diesel or not - or are considering it) Ram offers the free cummins usually this time of year. its free right now in Canada on 2017 and 2018 models. 10 k savings up here. I traded my 1500 for the 2500 with the free diesel last November. now i wish i went with the 3500! don't think for a minute the fiat diesels are anywhere close to the cummins.

i also don't suffer from poor mileage in the 3/4 ton - remember your not buying a truck for mileage and you're not getting the greatest mileage towing.

but ehre is a real life example. Niagara on The Lake Ontario to Orlando Florida to myrtle beach and back home to Niagara last summer. not sure of the total mileage, but including our touring around when the TT was parked $553 Canadian for diesel. Not bad pulling a 35 foot TT.

[DieselDrax]

I didn't see the OP mention which 1500 ED they were considering, the payload/tow capacities will vary quite a bit between a 2wd std cab and 4wd crew cab. One could be sufficient and the other would be overloaded.

I was -><- close to getting a Ram 1500 ED until I was scared away by the oil cooler problems and related engine replacements, that wasn't helped by seeing a used 2016 on a local Ram dealer's lot with a bad oil cooler right then and there. Majority of folks don't seem to be having a problem, but it was widespread enough for me to find out about a lot of people having this issue when I was researching and then to see one in person...pass.

That's when I took a closer look at the Colorado/Canyon with the 2.8L Duramax and discovered that the Colorado/Canyon CCLB 4x4 Duramax had more payload and tow capacity than the Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4x4 Laramie I was considering. The Colorado/Canyon is considered a mid-size truck and not a full-size and when you get down to the numbers the Colorado/Canyon CCLB (6' bed) has an 8.5" shorter wheelbase than the Ram 1500 Crew Cab with 6'4" bed BUT the Ram 1500 Crew Cab 5'7" bed wheelbase is half an inch shorter than the Colorado/Canyon CCLB which is also about 8.4" narrower overall. Enough smaller to make it quite a bit easier to park and fit into a garage but still big enough to make a very good TV for trailers under, say, 27ft or so.

I've been a Mopar guy for years and swore I'd never buy another GM, but here I am. This Canyon has been a great truck so far and I think a lot of people overlook them because they're not a full-size/half-ton truck and they think they're not capable of much. I thought the same thing as well and they weren't on my radar until I gave up on a Ram 1500 ED idea.

Just food for thought.

[VernDiesel]

Fiat doesn’t build Diesel engines. FCA bought VM Motori who is the Diesel engine manufacturer that builds the 3.0 Ecodiesel engine. VM Motori also designed & built the older 2.8 that they sold to GM which is what is in the Canyon.

I drove a tuned diesel Canyon. Nice responsive truck to drive. Struck me as a nice truck for towing a boat enclosed cargo trailer etc. I suspect people avoid them for TTs because of the narrower wheelbase. Was a little disappointed when I kicked it down though as it seemed peppy & responsive to drive but left you disappointed when you needed to pass. Diesels do have longevity on their side though had 371k on my ED towing TTs before I had my first motor issue. Truck just turned 390k last night.

[primo20]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Fiat doesn’t build Diesel engines. FCA bought VM Motori who is the Diesel engine manufacturer that builds the 3.0 Ecodiesel engine. VM Motori also designed & built the older 2.8 that they sold to GM which is what is in the Canyon.

I drove a tuned diesel Canyon. Nice responsive truck to drive. Struck me as a nice truck for towing a boat enclosed cargo trailer etc. I suspect people avoid them for TTs because of the narrower wheelbase. Was a little disappointed when I kicked it down though as it seemed peppy & responsive to drive but left you disappointed when you needed to pass. Diesels do have longevity on their side though had 371k on my ED towing TTs before I had my first motor issue. Truck just turned 390k last night.

im pretty sure Fiat does build diesel engines...i believe though the ones specific for the grand cherokee...VM Motori, is a longtime Italian marine-diesel-engine builder and is former affiliate of Fiat. Ownership is now, interestingly enough, split 50/50 between Chrysler/Fiat and General Motors. so a little bit of fiat and a little bit of VM Motori might better describe it.

regardless, ill stick to my original recommendation..go with the free cummins.

[DieselDrax]

Yeah, the downshifting to pass is annoying, we’ve learned to roll into the throttle and not give enough to downshift. It will pass much faster due to the torque at lower RPMs and won’t fall on its face. That’s my only complaint but “driver mod” works well to avoid it.

As for towing, I wouldn’t tow something more than 27’ long with one of these but for the smaller TTs it does really well and the factory exhaust brake is pretty nice.

[VernDiesel]

Primo I’m having a hard time following your writing style. What do you mean by free Cummins?

VM Motori originally did a joint venture for GM to design & build the 3.0 for Cadillac. But when GM dropped out due to their bankruptcy VM Motori decided they had a winner and soldiered on to finished the project despite their own financial challenges. It was going to make good power be incredibly efficient smooth & quiet and meet coming emmissions so they were pretty sure they could find a market for it.

This was per articles in Allpar & elsewhere on the net. Fiat bought/owned half of VM Motori and after buying/merging with Chrysler and seeing this coming together bought the remainder of VM Motori. The rest as they say is history with neither Fiat or Chrysler having anything to do with original design of this engine but both being benifactors.

DieselDrax, I hear ya. A challenge with the ED has been limited cooling (no crank driven fan) compounded by bad CAC placement. Sounds like MY 19 will have this resolved in part via the 48 volt battery that doubles the amps for an electric fan that will and more efficiently I might add rival what can be done with a crank driven fan.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Primo I’m having a hard time following your writing style. What do you mean by free Cummins?

Ram Canada has a promotion going on for a "no-charge Cummins."

https://www.ramtruck.ca/en/2500

I recall this being offered at times in the US as well, the MSRP of the Cummins is discounted 100% during these promotions.

The 2.8 Duramax is largely a VMM A428 but has a number of differences including a different turbo and an entirely different fuel injection system. The 2.8 Duramax is built by GM in Thailand as well and isn't built by VMM, GM has a licensing agreement with VMM to allow GM to produce this engine. The 2.8 Duramax also uses a GM ECM and allows for the use of tuners like EFI Live.

Some may also think that the VMM 3.0 and 2.8 are similar or that the 3.0 is an updated 2.8 because the displacements are similar. The 2.8 is an inline 4cyl, the 3.0 is a V6. Totally different.

[VernDiesel]

Oh very cool promotion thanks for the link. Yeah the rest I knew about the 2.8 but good info as I’m sure it’s news to most readers. Oddly Ram & the coming Ford 3.0 diesel didn’t add the turbo brake like GM did with the 2.8. Makes no sense to me. My turbo brake came with my tune and I totally love it when trailering in the moutains.

BTW what kind of power can they get out of the 2.8 with just a tune?

[primo20]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Ram Canada has a promotion going on for a "no-charge Cummins."

https://www.ramtruck.ca/en/2500

I recall this being offered at times in the US as well, the MSRP of the Cummins is discounted 100% during these promotions.

beat me to it. thanks.

[Jim34RL]

But do not buy a Canadian Ram Truck to reimport into the US. Why? No warranty at all the only warranty you can get is thru the Canadian truck dealers so, you would need to go to Canada for your warranty needs.
Cummins does not warranty the engine this is warranted by FCA. FCA buys the 6.7L Cummins from Cummins INC. without any factory warranty to be used in the pick-up trucks.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Oddly Ram & the coming Ford 3.0 diesel didn’t add the turbo brake like GM did with the 2.8. Makes no sense to me. My turbo brake came with my tune and I totally love it when trailering in the moutains.

BTW what kind of power can they get out of the 2.8 with just a tune?

Yeah, I don't get why they don't add it either, it's pretty easy with VGT/VVT/VNT turbos these engines use. Works great towing our 21SS when slowing for offramps, don't really have any hills around here to play with it on but we'll be doing some trips to/through the Rockies this summer.

There are a number of tuning options for the 2.8, engine safety/reliability aside the biggest factor is whether you want an emissions-friendly or delete tune, a safe and emissions-friendly tune adds 40HP/70TQ. Doesn't sound like much, but it's added where it matters. Rather than TQ dropping off a cliff around 2500-2700RPM (which is why we feel it fall on its face when flooring it to pass), it's able to carry that torque out to around 3200RPM, below 3200RPM is where it makes more torque than stock. So this increase and extended torque band does wonders for towing/passing. I'm still stock (Only 4,500miles on my truck), but when the warranty is up I fully plan on running one of the green tunes. I haven't felt the desire to do the deletes and I've had no problems with the DPF/SCR.

Originally Posted by Jim34RL

But do not buy a Canadian Ram Truck to reimport into the US. Why? No warranty at all the only warranty you can get is thru the Canadian truck dealers so, you would need to go to Canada for your warranty needs.
Cummins does not warranty the engine this is warranted by FCA. FCA buys the 6.7L Cummins from Cummins INC. without any factory warranty to be used in the pick-up trucks.

Indeed, that is true. Not only that, I don't see it making financial sense to buy a vehicle in Canada. Unless things have changed, new vehicle prices in Canada are MUCH higher than in the US so any discounts you might get wouldn't be enough to make the cost lower than buying that same vehicle in the US without those incentives.