320 Freedom Express

Scooper · 03-25-2013, 02:47 PM

Do you guys think I can haul the 320 express with a half ton z71 suburban? i belive the towing capacity is 8400lbs or 8500lbs on the ride. Thanks

jeeplj8 · 03-25-2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooper

Do you guys think I can haul the 320 express with a half ton z71 suburban? i belive the towing capacity is 8400lbs or 8500lbs on the ride. Thanks

I own a 320 freedom express. In a word: NO. You could post up your exact vehicle specifications and we can run the numbers to see how close you might be, but at the number you posted, NO.

Mine was over your towing capacity delivered. Even if you deleted some options, you are never going to be under your towing capacity.

However, that is the least of your worries. The tongue weight is over your CCC (cargo carrying capacity) anyway.

I know that Coachmen claims these are 1/2 ton towable, and theoretically if you had one of the newer 1/2 ton trucks with the max tow package it is numerically possible. But really, this is not advisable.

**ependydad** · 03-25-2013, 02:59 PM

Likely not. Your biggest challenge is the amount of payload/cargo carrying capacity of the 'burb. Out of this number comes you, all passengers, all your stuff *and* 10-15% of the camper's weight in the form of tongue weight. Usually there isn't enough left over after the driver, passengers and gear for the amount of tongue weight that the campers use.

I wrote a page about this. See if it's helpful in describing it:
What Can I Tow?

Scooper · 03-25-2013, 03:34 PM

appreciate the quick responses... i believe the dealer had the wt of trailer at 7412lbs and the is not the liberty edition. it is the basic freedom package.

**ependydad** · 03-25-2013, 03:46 PM

Scooper - the weight is one of those wildcards. Even if you look at the yellow sticker on the camper (that generally does include battery and propane), it's still not always a realistic weight as it doesn't include anything that you add - from the first piece of clothing to pots and pans to batteries for flashlights and whatnot.

I can be described as "overly cautious" at times, but I prefer to use the gross weight of the camper for my calculations as it's the maximum that your camper will likely weigh.

That said, the dry sticker weight of 7,412 pounds will give you a tongue weight of 740-1,110 pounds. Most campers are generally towards the higher end of that range. After adding yourself, all your passengers, weight distributing hitch and all the "stuff" you carry, does your 'burb have that much carrying capacity?

jeeplj8 · 03-25-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooper

appreciate the quick responses... i believe the dealer had the wt of trailer at 7412lbs and the is not the liberty edition. it is the basic freedom package.

so that is going to take off the 15k A/C, the larger fridge and fireplace, don't think those things add up to 500 lbs but maybe they do. My yellow sticker was 7949, but it weighed well over 8K when it went across the scales with a few things in it. Loaded to camp we are at about 9200 lbs. If you take 500 lbs off that you are maybe in the ball park of your theoretical tow capacity, but you need to look at your CC, the truck and GVWR and the GCVWR as well.

Scooper · 03-25-2013, 05:09 PM

what i just found on door is the following....
gvwr 7200
gawr frt 3450
cawr rr 4000
i am not sure to even figure my truck wt with out a scale.

this camper does have the 15kw a/c unit. standard fridge and no fireplace

**ependydad** · 03-25-2013, 05:25 PM

What year is the truck? And do you have a white/yellow sticker that looks like this:

or

Scooper · 03-25-2013, 05:29 PM

2003 5.3l vortec, the numbwers i gave came off the only sticker I see. this one did have the same data reffering to tires and such but it is not yellow

**ependydad** · 03-25-2013, 05:52 PM

Looking on the AOL Autos specs page, it looks like you have a curb weight of 5,219 lbs. Any options that you have added to the vehicle will increase this amount. But, this implies that you might have about 2,000 pounds of payload to work with (7,200 gvwr - 5,200 curb weight). I'll admit this is quite a bit higher than I would have guessed.

Is there any way that you could load the family up and pack a mock-load like you were going camping and then go hit a truck stop scale to get accurate weights? It looks like there are CAT scales just up and down the highway from you in Adel or down in Valdosta.

Basically- getting weighed takes all of the guess work out of it things.

Scooper · 03-25-2013, 06:52 PM

planned on doing that come Wednesday, thanks for the advice, i do not want to jepordize the safety factor

**ependydad** · 03-25-2013, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooper

planned on doing that come Wednesday, thanks for the advice, i do not want to jepordize the safety factor

Cool! Please post back- I'm definitely curious where things stand.

Scooper · 03-26-2013, 12:27 PM

Couldnt wait, so the total wt appears to 5990, had to add the family wt since they are not with me. Curb wt u saw was for 2wd, 4wd is 5500 in the specs i found. so how does this play out my towing numbers now?

**ependydad** · 03-26-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooper

Couldnt wait, so the total wt appears to 5990, had to add the family wt since they are not with me. Curb wt u saw was for 2wd, 4wd is 5500 in the specs i found. so how does this play out my towing numbers now?

Ok, sorry - I'm dense. The 5990, have you already added the amount for your family? Did you also take into account mythical numbers for the "camping stuff" you carry in the truck? (booster seats, car seats, tools, clothes, coolers, bikes, firewood, camping chairs, as well as some extra weight since it's a weight distributing hitch). What number would that ultimately be?

But, until you guesstimate that - let's go with the numbers that you've provided:

- A. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) (aka, the maximum your truck should carry): 7,200 pounds
- B. Your truck's actual weight with you + the family: 5,990 pounds
- C. Other stuff you carry: 0 pounds (you'll have to estimate this)

- You're available payload for tongue weight (A - B - C): 1,210 pounds (again, remember - I don't know if you estimated other stuff in the truck or not)

From the specs page of the camper:
- Base weight: 7,015 lbs.
- Estimated GVWR (base weight + cargo carrying capacity): 10,658 lbs.

Matthew (jeeplj8) indicated that he has the same camper and his "base weight" was over 8,000 pounds and he's typically ready to camp at about 9,200 pounds. I'll go with 9,000 lbs as a best guess for tongue weight (knowing that yours may come in higher or lower, depending on how you load the camper up):

9,000 pounds at 10% tongue weight is 900 pounds.
9,000 pounds at 15% tongue weight is 1,350 pounds.

You need your camper's tongue weight to be less than 1,210 pounds.

With careful planning and keeping the camper on a diet, you may be able to achieve that. But, again - remember, you have to account for everything else that is normally in the truck when you go camping. So, that 1,210 pounds is likely to be less. Only you can estimate how much less.

Personally, my gut reaction is to tell you to look at smaller campers or a bigger tow vehicle. I'd be too stressed about each thing that everyone brings along if I were so close to my maximum numbers.

Scooper · 03-26-2013, 03:52 PM

this has been very helpful and you really seem to know this "stuff". i will consider all aspects and make the right decision. i will post what happens when we pull the trigger.

jeeplj8 · 03-28-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooper

this has been very helpful and you really seem to know this "stuff". i will consider all aspects and make the right decision. i will post what happens when we pull the trigger.

I used to own an 03 Tahoe Z71. Same drive train as yours, just shorter. While you have a distinct advantage with the extra wheelbase over that Tahoe, I really have to caution you, trying to pull a 320BHDS with your Suburban is just never going to be a fun experience, much less safe or legal.

I hope you get a trailer you love, and if it is a 320BHDS, I hope you plan to invest in a larger tow vehicle.

Scooper · 03-28-2013, 03:35 PM

i am going to do the right thing, but my deliema is, from two sources, is the "weight of trailer". Does that mean a trailer the does have brakes or does not have brakes. I was lead to believe that the weight is the safe ability to stop the vehicle based on a free axle, one that is not "braked". if that is true then could i be safe since the trailer has brakes?

jeeplj8 · 03-28-2013, 05:12 PM

I am not sure where you might have heard that. Every automobile manufacturer published weight rating will have the following caveats; when properly equipped (for the tow vehicle) and with trailer brakes.

Most half ton trucks could not pull more than 2000 pounds without brakes. Basically a wave runner or motorcycle.

Scooper · 03-28-2013, 07:10 PM

i understand that theory but how many times have you seen a boat or tractor being pulled on a flat bed trailer that doesnt have brakes? Construction workers i know load down basic trailers with everything they can. just looking at all possibilities

jeeplj8 · 03-29-2013, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooper

i understand that theory but how many times have you seen a boat or tractor being pulled on a flat bed trailer that doesnt have brakes? Construction workers i know load down basic trailers with everything they can. just looking at all possibilities

The answer to your question is never. Boat trailers with a rating 2,000lbs and under do not need to have brakes, but the next size up (3,500 lbs) are equipped with surge brakes on up to over 15K lbs. At that weight most are electric over hydraulic.

Same rule of thumb with flatbed trailers.

I see plenty of overloaded trailers. I also see what happens when accidents happen. This is the argument about if you see your friend jump off a bridge...

Keep in mind that when it comes to towing travel trailers, everything has been tried. But only certain things work.

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