.5 ton truck hits payload restriction on 5800 lbs TT

[Shamrockthecasbah]

Originally Posted by bikendan

The OP is concerned about the truck's payload capacity.
A WDH does NOT increase the tow vehicle's payload capacity. In fact, it will lower it because of its weight. It does distribute the trailer weight. It will help with squat.

The only way a WDH would lower payload would be if the hitch weighed more that the amount of weight transferred back to the trailer. My experience with the Equalizer 10,000/1000 is that it transfers about 125lb back to my trailer, while the hitch itself weighs only 90lb. A net payload reduction of 35lb.


I've never liked the advice to count the weight of the WD hitch against TV payload, because the hitch should be sending at least that much back to the trailer.

[mawilson]

The right answer, as others have said, is a session at the scales. Those numbers, along with the pillar stickers and the stickers on the trailer (don't forget it has published limits, too), will tell you what you need to know about your rig. Everything else is guessing and armchair pontification.

As for specs, keep in mind that the people that create those numbers are also liable to potentially massive lawsuits if they post numbers solely for marketing. Thus, they are generally conservative. Treat the sticker limits as Do Not Exceed (DNE) and you should be fine on the numbers.

That said, you also need to feel safe driving the rig. If you don't, you'll be tense the whole time on the road. That's not only unpleasant, it's unsafe. We pulled our 243RBS with a 5L V8 F150 w/tow and it was fine on relatively flat ground but, while within specs, it rev'd up, downshifted, and slowed considerably (too much IMO - 45 mph on a 70mph road is not safe) on the hills near Tallahassee. End result: F250.

[dbledan]

Been there done all this. I loved my F150 EB and really wanted to keep it. Since I was going to lose out on the truck I lived with it a while and tried everything to make things better and safe. I weighed 50+ times trying to find the balance. I would load up for a trip and go weigh to see what adjustments needed to be made. Eventually the shirlene scale was how I started making adjustments after I figured out how TW was impacting my axles. I would still weigh on the way out just to be sure because it was not always the same.

I ended up just getting my F350 last week. The 350 was only about $70 more than a 250 with same features. A 250 would have been enough but what about the next upgrade...

The question is are you worried about weight or stability? For me it was stability and reducing or adjusting weight was the major means to get there. I was less concerned about calculated payload and focused on axle weights and gross weights (thanks Drax) to setup the hitch. With removal and adjustments I could get very close to maxing the truck out and still have room left on the TT. Here is what I found worked the best for me through my process

First thing I did was get rid of lots of things I really could live without. Most of this was tools so it was easy. Some were heavy items like grills that I did not need for specific trips. Harder to get rid of DW as that would have been more expensive than a new truck or TT. On a few trips we took 2 cars if it was close and we needed lots of gear for something.
Second was to balance my load much better in the TT as it was VERY tongue heavy. Storage arrangements in the TT meant a lot of shuffling when we got to our destination which stinks but you have to manage it.
Third was to only take water on at my destination or very close to it. Same for groceries as I would only have dinner and tomorrow's breakfast. The rest we shopped for when we were there.
Fourth was to secure the load. Those recliners flying around in the back don't help sway if they move around.
Fifth was a P3 hitch once loads were adjusted because it meant more weight in the rear.
Last was the F350 (I hope).

I had also added Timbrens (for leveling and porpoiseing) and LT tires (tried for stability). I don't think they did much on the stability front though they did solve other problems.

The P3 does not help your weight problem but does help when you move weight further back to prevent sway issues from stacking up on you. My WDH would offset itself on axle weights and the P3 did a bit better. The difference between blueox and P3 was pretty negligible when all said and done to the vehicle axles with the proper adjustments even though the P3 weighed 100+lbs more.

Hope that helps you and best of luck!

[swj]

thxs, what were you towing with your F150, tow capacity and payload of your F150?

[lbrjet]

Doesn't matter what other people are towing or their ratings. What matters is your truck and trailer. Payload doesn't sound like it should be an issue for you. Weigh to make sure as many others have suggested. It sounds to me like you are uncomfortable towing with your combination. What others are doing will not help you. I would suggest getting more experience before making any big changes. Even my F250 gets pushed around a bit with some wind gusts. It was very unsettling at first, but after thousands of miles towing you get used to it. You are pulling a giant sail and it is part of what you have to deal with. If you want a new truck then get it. I don't think you need one, but wouldn't try to talk you out of it either.

[herkyfe]

If I read this correct, there are a lot of mistakes being made. Start off with your towing capacity for the truck minus TT weight plus everything you put in it including propane, etc. Look at the data plate and there's a wealth of info on there to work with. Once you figure how much you can add, if any, then the next issue is your tongue weight. Now remember, weight distribution does not increase the carrying capacity as the weight is still there but distributed differently. Weight of TT whether on one axle or 4, the truck still pulling the same amount of weight. Trust me on this and any trucker will tell you the same. We all need to ensure wr are below all up weight of total rig and then also on the distribution of weight. So to sum up, if you have a few hundred pounds to add for your food, clothing, propane etc then you might to seriously consider the F250 or buy everything enroute. Hope this helps you some.

[Lzerarc]

Wow, forum still pushing a HD truck to pull under 7k lbs.

Here is my story, and I will get flamed because these are facts.

First, the trailer is a Rockwood 2905ws. Scaled loaded it weighs in at 7900 lbs. It's 34' long.
First fact. The scales tell me the wdh moves about 120# from my truck back to the trailer axles. So, if my Sherline reads 950, and hitch up with no bars, scales say about 1k, bars engaged the scale say my axles add up to 880# tw added to my truck.

Was pulling it with a 2016 f150, Max tow. Used a 10k equalizer hitch. Towed well for 80% of the time. Higher winds pushed me around uncomfortably. Scaled I was about 150 lbs under payload.

Upgraded to LT tires. Nearly no difference in feel. Upgraded to the ProPride hitch (flaming starts now). Massive difference. 0 sway even in higher winds. No push from passing trucks, 0. However it's a heavy hitch. Weighs just under 200#. But the added length of it (about 1'longer) increases the leverage distance between trailer axles and hitch box. Thus most of the added weight is negated compared to the E4. The negative...these hitches cost $3000. This many say they are a waste of money. Oddly enough are mostly whom never used one and say buy a big $60k truck instead.

Anyway I was right at my payload of 7000#. This forum made me believe I needed to get a f250 otherwise everyone would die immediately even though my setup felt very stable and safe and is within the ultra conservative ratings on my truck. Much more so then previous hitch.

Anyway, I traded my 150 for a '18 250 gasser to get 3200# payload. It pulled my trailer, with the 3P hitch, basically the same. Only real difference was the more harsh ride.

Fast forward to the point I hated driving the f250 as my daily so much I couldn't take it any longer. The new Silverados also have higher payloads for '19, so I got rid of the f250, went with a new loaded Silverado with the 6.2 Max trailering and 1940# in payload. Gvwr is 7300#, and a rear axle of 4150. All of these ratings were higher than the f150, so I've haven't looked back. I've been a Ford guy, but this truck handled better and the 6.2 performs similar to the 3.5. steering and rear always felt squirrelly in the f150. I've read other people with similar complaints.

For me, the bigger truck made no difference in my setup, due to the hitch. A big truck doesn't make the trailer sway less...it just reduces how much you feel in the truck. The 3P hitch stops and prevents sway. Period. Fact. My setup is within all of the limits, rock solid feel, and am much happier not driving the big truck. "But can it stop it".....please. it's engineered to stop over 12000#.

You are within your ratings. Like others have said, take it to the cat scales and get real measurements. Mine varied a bit from the sherline. If it feels stable, tows good, then roll on. Happy camping! If it feels shaky and sway prone, first check your loading (especially with a rear kitchen) and then I'd recommend taking a good look at the hitch upgrade before a truck.

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by Lzerarc

Wow, forum still pushing a HD truck to pull under
For me, the bigger truck made no difference in my setup, due to the hitch. A big truck doesn't make the trailer sway less...it just reduces how much you feel in the truck. The 3P hitch stops and prevents sway. Period. Fact. My setup is within all of the limits, rock solid feel, and am much happier not driving the big truck. "But can it stop it".....please. it's engineered to stop over 12000#.

You are within your ratings. Like others have said, take it to the cat scales and get real measurements. Mine varied a bit from the sherline. If it feels stable, tows good, then roll on. Happy camping! If it feels shaky and sway prone, first check your loading (especially with a rear kitchen) and then I'd recommend taking a good look at the hitch upgrade before a truck.

I like all of the above except he should have stayed with a Ford...
I will add, if you are worried about stopping - put disc brakes on the trailer. Significantly better stopping power.
I also have a Propride hitch on my 7000lb trailer. I did upgrade to disc brakes and and very glad I did.

[Doswheelers]

Another fan of the ProPride. Expensive and quite heavy, but it really does eliminate a lot of the drama.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by swj

thxs, what were you towing with your F150, tow capacity and payload of your F150?

Payload was 1600 and change...sold the truck so dont recall exactly now and no sticker to look at. It was a max tow package rated for 11500 lbs towing capacity. It's a pretty fictional number with a travel trailer. It applies for low profile trailers but not something with a large frontal area.

Trailer weighs in roughly 7000 loaded. It maxes out at 7700lbs. It had a very heavy 1100lb tongue weight when I started with my first weigh. At that point I was 300-400lb over on the rear axle until I started unloading things from both truck and trailer.

I got it down to roughly 50lbs over on the rear axle depending on the gear and how well I adjusted the WDH until it could not redistribute anymore weight. I had room on the front axle, trailer axle, and gross weight but rear was always my problem no matter how much I adjusted the WDH it was too much weight to overcome.

I have yet to weigh the new truck. Maybe next weekend but I am sure I am under.

I do agree that every truck and trailer is different. This was my setup. Your results may vary.

[J Man]

Originally Posted by swj

I have a 2018 F150 SCrew 3.5L Eco, max tow, 20 in wheels. Payload 1730 lbs. My 2017 TTrailer (Surveyor 251RKS) has a dry weight of 5800 lbs. Dealer added battery, 2 propane bottles. No food, water and or supplies in TTrailer, tanks empty. Used a trailer tongue weight scale today which shows a 1000 lbs tongue weight. Add Equalizer 12K WDH 100 lbs, 160 lbs gen/gas, me and mine weigh 350 lbs and I'm at 1610 lbs, 120 lbs under payload. Is that enough "cushion" to for the truck to tow the Trailer/safe towing/great handling.? Store everything else in the Trailer? Trailer has 2000 lbs carrying capacity. Tires are GY Endurance. Sway and handling have been a issue. Time to buy a F250?

My advice would be to load the trailer up as you normally would, make any necessary adjustments to the WDH to match your loaded trailer and take it for a spin to a certified scale. Right now your tongue weight is higher than it needs to be. Once the trailer is properly loaded you may find that the combo settles down.

[Rivasiuk]

Check out a set of Timbrens for the rear and front. Will help with squat and rolling. Inexpensive compared to others suspension upgrades. If you are happy with the the way it tows now this would just give you a bit more stability.

[HappyCamper0813]

Add some airbags and level out the ride and be done with it. Added to my 3.5 eco and tows like a dream now. Probably one of the best investments I made on the truck.

[babock]

Originally Posted by HappyCamper0813

Add some airbags and level out the ride and be done with it. Added to my 3.5 eco and tows like a dream now. Probably one of the best investments I made on the truck.

Air bags do nothing for payload.

[NC Bill]

Also max tow does not give you max payload. Two separate options. And a loaded trucks (lots of options) is going to have significantly lower payload.

Its typical to run out of payload way before you run out of tow rating, unless you get the heavy duty payload package.

I would never make a decision based on what others are doing. Short of sitting in the passenger seat while they are pulling a steep grade, or in heavy winds, or whatever, its just opinion.

There will ALWAYS be other people exceeding the ratings of their trucks, and reporting excellent results. Just remember, if you do this, its on you. If you have a problem later, a defense such as "I read on the internet where someone else was doing it" will not fly.

And please drop the dry weight concept from the discussion. $10 and 15 minutes and you will have accurate information. Just head to the nearest truck stop. Dry weights never include ANY options. Depending on your trailer, spare tire, AC, awning, and more will all be options. Then dry weight typically does not include batteries.

If you are buying a new trailer, just require the dealer to go get you a scale weight ticket. Sure, they will flop on the floor, and foam at the mouth. But in the end, they want YOUR money and they WILL get you a real weight.

[Rivasiuk]

Also Timbrens which is similar to Surlasti are maintenance free and don't affect your unloaded ride.

[phfkef]

i have posted the link included below several times now. There are many calculators on the net. This one does a really good job of explaining what the various loads are (read the whole thing). The OP can play with this to shed some light on his situation.

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptraile...utionhitch.php

[swj]

thxs, I thought the WDH pushed weight to front TV axle and TT rear axle??
quote form your tow link app says no??

"the weight distribution hitch only produces rotational forces center at the ball. Importantly, it does not reduce the tongue weight applied to the vehicle's frame. The full tongue weight rests on the vehicle's frame. This is important when calculating Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW). Even though the rotational forces are transferring the weight, the tow vehicles frame is still supports the entire vertical linear force of the trailer's tongue weight. The torque only reduces the loads at the axles not the frame.

[DieselDrax]

Originally Posted by swj

thxs, I thought the WDH pushed weight to front TV axle and TT rear axle??

quote form your tow link app says no??



"the weight distribution hitch only produces rotational forces center at the ball. Importantly, it does not reduce the tongue weight applied to the vehicle's frame. The full tongue weight rests on the vehicle's frame. This is important when calculating Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW). Even though the rotational forces are transferring the weight, the tow vehicles frame is still supports the entire vertical linear force of the trailer's tongue weight. The torque only reduces the loads at the axles not the frame.

That quote is just making understanding things overly complicated. The tow vehicle doesn’t have a “frame-specific torque rating”, if the sum of the tow vehicle axle weights is below the tow vehicle GVWR when using a WDH then that’s what matters. The tongue weight doesn’t disappear, the WDH uses leverage to help redistribute it to the front and trailer axles as you thought.

For them to imply that you could exceed GVWR while the sum of the tow vehicle axle weights is below GVWR is false and adds confusion.

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

That quote is just making understanding things overly complicated. The tow vehicle doesn’t have a “frame-specific torque rating”, if the sum of the tow vehicle axle weights is below the tow vehicle GVWR when using a WDH then that’s what matters. The tongue weight doesn’t disappear, the WDH uses leverage to help redistribute it to the front and trailer axles as you thought.

For them to imply that you could exceed GVWR while the sum of the tow vehicle axle weights is below GVWR is false and adds confusion.

I agree. no need to complicate things. I weight the truck alone with all the things I'll carry, combined weight of truck and camper with WDH hooked up, if all the axles are under gross ratings your good to go. Tongue weight I calculate with the bathroom scale method at home before hitting the scales. I keep the hitch adjusted to put all but 40 lbs back onto my front axle when the camper is connected.