5th Wheel Towable With 1/2 Ton Truck

[OldCoot]

Edit by Moderator:
I have used this post to start a new thread to continue the discussion that was on-going in an earlier thread. You can find the original thread here:http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...0-a-46611.html.
Some of the posts here are still present in that earlier thread as well. Thanks to OldCoot for unknowingly starting out this new thread! :-)

Having dealt with lawyers in the design field for years, I put absolutely no faith in the stickers on the trucks. Trucks are manufactured with a safety factor and I can guarantee them to be significantly greater than what is on the stickers. As I have said numerous times on this forum, they have nothing to do with the limits of the truck's load capacity and every thing to do with protecting the manufacturers from legal repercussions.

Exceeding the stickers by a significant amount is not a wise thing to do, but by the same token, saying they cannot be exceeded is likewise unwise which brings up the same folks say you cannot exceed such and such a sticker but will pull a trailer on st tires in excess of 65 mph and swear it is ok. Go figure.

JMO. Sorry to hijack the thread.

BTW, I have no trouble whatsoever towing a 2012 Flagstaff 8528RKWS with a 1500 Silverado with a 5.3 and a 3.23 rear end. I really don't know what I would gain with a 2500 or 3500 other than a faster acceleration, harsher ride empty, higher fuel consumption and an empty rear pocket.

[BarryD0706]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

...
As I have said numerous times on this forum, they have nothing to do with the limits of the truck's load capacity and every thing to do with protecting the manufacturers from legal repercussions.
...
BTW, I have no trouble whatsoever towing a 2012 Flagstaff 8528RKWS with a 1500 Silverado with a 5.3 and a 3.23 rear end. I really don't know what I would gain with a 2500 or 3500 other than a faster acceleration, harsher ride empty, higher fuel consumption and an empty rear pocket.

And perhaps with protecting the operator of such a vehicle from legal repercussions, should they be found at-fault in a collision.

As someone famous once said, just because you feel comfortable doing something you've been doing for many years doesn't mean that you should necessarily recommend the practice to someone without your experience.

[bob34787]

I have seen a lot of vehicles towing things they should not tow and I have seen many cases of the towed vehicle taking control of the tow vehicle in many cases while investigating motor vehicle accidents for the Dept. of Transportation, tow what you want with whatever you want but man up when the accident occurs and accept responsibility for the injuries to others.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by BarryD0706

And perhaps with protecting the operator of such a vehicle from legal repercussions, should they be found at-fault in a collision.

As someone famous once said, just because you feel comfortable doing something you've been doing for many years doesn't mean that you should necessarily recommend the practice to someone without your experience.

Would not recommend anyone to go over 1200# pin wt on a 1/2T with LT E rated tires and not over 800# especially if they are on P tires. JMO.

[Campingwith2kids2dogs]

We had a '09 Tundra Rock Warrior 5.7L v8 pulling a 29 ft Sundance 5er, then bought a new Wildcat 312 BHX-OK & added airbags soon after. After hauling on a hilly, curvy rd in PA & smelling our burnt brakes, DW started researching weight limits. We now have a 2013 2500 Sierra HD Turbo Deisel. There is no comparison. The air brake makes a big difference too.

[camper1999]

I did not see exactly what 1/2 ton we are talking about but depending on the year and the tow package it has, it could be okay. The 2014 has a pay load of 2000 pounds and max trailer weight of 11400. The 282RKX - eXtraLite Fifth Wheels would work in my opinion. You need to do your own math depending on the year of your truck and remembering pay load includes your pin weigh and everything you plan to put in your truck including passengers.

[blueline38]

The stickers on the door might be lower than what the truck can handle but the DOT is not going to care what you think your truck can do, when you get into an accident on the highway. If your truck is found to be over loaded, you will face heavy fines and expensive civil litigation. Plus, if the state police or DOT decide to weigh you, you will face fines and will be unable to continue on your trip!

[Johnv]

I just towed our Wild Cat Sterling 30RL with our F 150 with a heavy tow package over four passes in Colorado including the Million Dollar Road north of Durango. My truck has a towing capacity of 11,300 pounds and we were was pulling about 10,000 pounds loaded. The truck has a 6.2 engine and a 383 rear end. We had no problems up or down and averaged 9.5 mpg. Max speed above 11,000 ft was 40 mph. I used all six gears, but the truck handled it even on 7 degree inclines. So far we have towed the camper over 22,000 miles.

[blueline38]

Johnv; Your truck might handle it ok, but you are over loaded, which is the point that some are making here. Your 10,000lb trailer has a tongue weight of around 2,000lbs. There is not a single F150, with the 6.2, that has a payload of even up to 2000lbs according to their specs. So, your trailer, plus people, plus the hitch and cargo (in the truck) places you seriously over the weight rating of that truck. If you were to get into an accident (your fault or not) the insurance company will have a field day!

[OldCoot]

blueline38, are these the voices of experience, speculation or are you a lawyer?

[avolnek]

I'd advise against towing any 5th wheel with any half ton. Payload is a HUGE concern. You may be able to keep yourself under it for awhile but will eventually push it and most likely go over at some point.

Ask Ependydad about his experience. I remember recently he posted that he scaled his rig and was pushing the limits of a 1 ton dually with a 5er. I can guarantee you that he nor would anyone else have ever expected this but it happens!

It is our nature to bring whatever we can physically fit it! (if my DW finds an open drawer she fills it, whether we need it or not!)

My other concern is the stability of a half ton truck. A ram 1500 weighs roughly 5200 LBS. I weighed mine a 2500 diesel the other day at 7700LBS... That is 2500 extra pounds. The added weight assists in controlling the HUGE billboard you are dragging behind you. A 3/4 or 1 ton is also going to have LT tires rather than passenger which is going to make the truck feel much more stable.

A half ton can pull some of the 5th wheels, but I do not see it being a smart idea... That being said, I've made more than my share of dumb choices!

[OldCoot]

Some of us with 1/2T's have the 10 ply LT tires also and have no trouble with stability. Not everyone loads every nook and cranny in a trailer. We have numerous cabinets with nothing in them. Under the bed has a couple of extra pillows, a set of sheets, blanket and bedspread. All food is in the rear of the trailer as is the kitchen, which is why we chose this 5er.

[blueline38]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

blueline38, are these the voices of experience, speculation or are you a lawyer?

These are voices from a ten year police officer who is a certified accident investigator and commercial vehicle inspector.

[Wildcat Chris]

This discussion comes up fairly frequently and always seems to get more heated than it needs to. The problem is there's a lot of variables (not all of them strictly weight related) that factor in to towing a trailer and so there's a WIDE variety of opinion on which facts or data really matters.

Rather than a suggestion of what you can or cannot do with a "half-ton" truck (really, at this point, a misnomer), your best bet is to take a look at the information available. Remember that not all "half-tons" are created equally (with regards to towing and payload capacity both). Here's some helpful links to check out:
Forest River RV Customer Service
Trailer Towing Guides | Trailer Life Magazine
Ford Towing Guides | The Official Site of Ford Vehicles | Ford.com
Towing Capacity Chart | Vehicle Towing Capacity | GMC
Trailering and Towing | Vehicle Towing Guide | GMC
Trailering Guide - HOME
Dodge Towing Guide
Tow Ratings Database - Tow Vehicle Ratings | Camping Life Magazine
Truck Ratings for RV Towing

Always remember the basic rule of thumb for safe and happy towing: you want more truck than trailer!

Good luck!

[Johnv]

My 2011 F150 meets all the weight criteria for pulling our Sterling 30RL. We do not overload the trailer, tires, hitch weight, or rated towing capacity. All are factory rated at least 15% above the towed weights. The truck has every factory towing option available and it is a Crew Cab 4x4 with a sway stability feature. I have owned a F350 and find the performance of this truck equal to or better. Depending how it is equipped, many F250 pickups do not have the same towing capacity as my F150. You are right, not all 1/2 ton trucks are created equal. I have driven it across Kansas with 20+ mph cross winds as well as 20+ mph head winds. I have 100,000 miles on the truck and the brakes are still original with many more miles to go. The truck is inspected by the Ford dealership before every long trip. The last thing I want is an accident. On occasion, I have had to make emergency maneuvers to avoid a collision from a bad driver. The truck has never failed to perform or stop in time.

[tanddc]

Originally Posted by Filthy Beast

It's not just the Rockies, to the East we still have the Ozark and Appalachians and I am sure other areas with large hills.

It's not the large hills that get you but the altitude. If I remember correctly you have to de-rate 2% for every 1000 feet in altitude.

avolnek,

I have to disagree with the statment "It is our nature to bring whatever we can physically fit it". Not everyone is like that. I enjoy bringing only what I need. To me (and others) it is part of the fun of camping. While my wife may fill every drawer, we still have plenty of unused stroage space.

[OldCoot]

Have to agree with tanddc, not everyone fills their trailer with everything. We travel very light and have several cabinet compartments with little or nothing in them. We've learned after having 4 trailers in the last 7 yrs what we use, seldom use and never use and the never use items and seldom use items are left home or thrown away. When we get home from this trip, we will lighten the load again by leaving two bag chairs and a bag table home plus a few other items. If we find we need something we "just have to have" we will buy it on the road. Usually tho', if we think we need something and hold off buying it for a few days or a week, we have found out in more cases than not, we really don't need it.

[Lloydg]

From 2010 to 2012 I towed a 21' Passport by Keystone with a F150 and then got the bug real bad for a 5W. I did the math backward and forward, weighed my truck, and read so many forums and comments that my eyes became blurred. I found a few 5W's that could fit just under my weight ratings considering GVWR and Axel Weight Rating, but I was limited by the number of options I would consider. At 65 years young I did not want to buy a new 5W only to turn around and buy another because we wanted something larger. So, to make a long story short, I decided to make the splurge and upgraded to a F250. It opened up our options of 5W's to consider and we settled on the 33' Surveyor SVF293 . I think we made a sound decision and tow knowing that the weight limits are well within their ratings.

[Johnv]

Originally Posted by blueline38

Johnv; Your truck might handle it ok, but you are over loaded, which is the point that some are making here. Your 10,000lb trailer has a tongue weight of around 2,000lbs. There is not a single F150, with the 6.2, that has a payload of even up to 2000lbs according to their specs. So, your trailer, plus people, plus the hitch and cargo (in the truck) places you seriously over the weight rating of that truck. If you were to get into an accident (your fault or not) the insurance company will have a field day!

The factory specified tongue weight on my Wildcat 30RL is 1,590 and the F150 has a rated load capacity of 3,120. The weight of my camper load is never more than 9,700 (8,900 empty) and the rated towing weight is 11,300. The total weight of truck, camper and gear is usually about 16,000. It it rated at 17,100 It works, it drives right, and it is not over loaded according to the factory specs. I did add air bags to smooth out the bounce at bridge approaches, but fully loaded with no air in the bags, it sits level and the head lights are not shinning in the sky at night. If we can't believe the factory specs, then what other information would the insurance company use in the case of an accident to nail me?

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Johnv

The factory specified tongue weight on my Wildcat 30RL is 1,590 and the F150 has a rated load capacity of 3,120.

You have a payload capacity of 3,120?! Holy carp. I knew some of the F150s were high, but I didn't realize they went that high.

Mind posting a picture of your door jamb sticker? I wanna save that to my library!