5th wheel towing with a Ram 2500 diesel

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by avolnek

To play the devil's advocate here and not really side either way. For Dodges at least the only difference between the 2500 and 3500 (single rear wheel) is the rear leaf spring package. The 3500 has a high spring ratio than the 2500 giving it the extra payload. I'm not saying to do so or that it is okay to do but one can increase the rear spring ratio of a 2500 in a number of ways IE: air bags, helper springs or completely swap to the 3500 leaf setup. The 2500s payload is limited by the springs as that is the weakest link, everything else is the same as the 3500.

I'm going to agree with Rugged Brown and say that ependydad does tend to err to the safe side. I am going to try and put it as politely as I can and I'm sorry if anyone becomes offended but I feel that much of this is due to his background. I feel from the things I have read that he has responded gives the impression that specin' a rig, building a rig and pulling/backing large trailers is fairly foreign to him. There is nothing wrong with this, but to me people with no real background in it become sponges and absorb EVERYTHING they hear and read online, which is generally posted/blogged by similar folk with similar backgrounds...

Ultimately what I am trying to say is that everyone is going to opinions. Some are built upon experience, some upon their own beliefs/teachings and some upon their own ignorance.

My opinion here, the only truly helpful response thus far would be Turbos. The original post hasn't even spec'd a trailer yet. He simply stated he was looking at the neighborhood of 14,000LBS... That is only part of the equation. Turbo was after more information on the trailer as well as the truck to fill in the remainder of the equation... Until you know what the dry pin weight of the truck is how can you harp stating that he will be over weight? There are still too many factors to be figured and I don't feel that any of the other responses really got anywhere...

As Turbs said, we will need more info on the truck and trailer. Also would like to know your plans, where you plan to go and who you plan to bring with... All this plays in...

X2, Very well stated avolnek. One cannot make recommendations on the data OP stated. Turbs was right on the money.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by ependydad

With a camper that weighs 14,000 pounds - you most likely will be over on GVWR and at or near the rear axle and tire load capacities.

Holy carp, people. I write a 5-paragraph on how to calculate weights and you beat me up over 1-sentence.

I wrote it since the Op seemed to not understand why people suggest a 3500 instead of a 2500. With later posts, I apparently was wrong.

Let me clarify (again)- I wasn't making a *recommendation*, I was merely trying to educate - I must misunderstand the purpose of forums. But jeez, 3 different people coming down on me over 1-sentence out of an entire page of a post.

[bakken]

Originally Posted by avolnek

To play the devil's advocate here and not really side either way. For Dodges at least the only difference between the 2500 and 3500 (single rear wheel) is the rear leaf spring package.
The 2500s payload is limited by the springs as that is the weakest link, everything else is the same as the 3500.

.

Do they really share the same rear axle, and the same front suspension?
The springs are the only difference?

[JFM-jr]

Originally Posted by bakken

Do they really share the same rear axle, and the same front suspension?
The springs are the only difference?

The diesels do, in the 2500 and 3500 they have identical 11.5 inch rear axles. The gas powered 2500's have a smaller 10.5 rear axle wich oddly enough carries the same GAWR (in 2009 anyway) as the Diesels. The front axles and chassis frames are identical in all the 3/4 and 1 ton single or duallies. So in fact you could take a 2500 Cummins Ram and swap out the rear leafs to a set of 3500 and pretty much have a 1 ton truck. Personally i'd install airbags and call it a day.

[ATsXLR]

That's correct, with the 2500 and 3500 diesels the only difference is the leaf pack (and clearance lights, which I really wanted).
What sealed the deal for me was the fact my insurance company Farmers, will not insure the 3500 (1 ton)?? So I loaded my 2500 with Firestone Air-Bags and the Air-Lift Wireless Air. All better now!

[sidney]

Originally Posted by ATsXLR

That's correct, with the 2500 and 3500 diesels the only difference is the leaf pack (and clearance lights, which I really wanted).
What sealed the deal for me was the fact my insurance company Farmers, will not insure the 3500 (1 ton)?? So I loaded my 2500 with Firestone Air-Bags and the Air-Lift Wireless Air. All better now!

This use to be the case for the 2012 and older model years. However the 2013 Ram 2500 and 3500 have totally different frames and suspensions. There is a big difference in the payload and towing capacities between the 2013 3/4 and 1 ton Rams with all the new features on the 3500.

[joelek]

Speaking of Farmers insurance company, non of you guys addressed the issue of accident insurance claims, lawyers, cops, and issues related to operating an overloaded vehicle.

Speaking in a non specific general scenario, sure the 3/4 ton will tow a big heavy RV. However, if you get in an accident or worse yet, cause an accident get ready for the claims adjuster to weasel their way out of minimizing the insurance claim payment to you. If your truck/rv combo is found to be "overloaded" your claim payment could be denied, reduced, etc. If you caused the accident or simply got into one, tickets and court cases could be in your future.

So to summarize, nothing happens till an accident investigation. Then poop happens and boy does it stink!

[rattleNsmoke]

Very well put.

[Ecclesiastes]

Thanks for input ependydad I see you have the 36qbok7 that's the one I am leading to get the hitch weight 1800 max gross 14000.i have the 2013 single ,2500 diesel , short bed the book says cargo 3000 lbs tow 18000 how do you like it any input we will be full timers and live in Florida but plan on a lot of traveling kids all grown up.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes

Thanks for input ependydad I see you have the 36qbok7 that's the one I am leading to get the hitch weight 1800 max gross 14000.i have the 2013 single ,2500 diesel , short bed the book says cargo 3000 lbs tow 18000 how do you like it any input we will be full timers and live in Florida but plan on a lot of traveling kids all grown up.

As a camper, we love it! There are some talks about possibly full timing in it for a year. We'll see. It's definitely a 2 1/2 season camper. I wouldn't want to try and endure cold sweater in it. With day time temps on the high 40s/low 50s and without space heaters, we went thru a 30lb. tank of propane running the furnace and keeping it pleasantly warm. (We're prima donnas.)

I'm currently have some issues with one of my slides. But I'm getting the feeling that Sabre has moved away from Schwintek slides for the bunkhouse. So maybe others won't have the same issue.

Otherwise, our camper issues have been very minor. I did post my list of about 20-items just prior to 1-year warranty being up. Really, I can't complain! Sabre is treating me well with the slide issue (taking it back to the factory). I've fixed some small stuff over our first year as well.

I have weighed our camper at the beginning of this season, so we had a fairly lighter than normal for us. We came in with the camper weighing 13,800 (I'd guess more normal for us is 14,500); it's max is 15,825 or so. My pin weight comes in at about 2,300 pounds (again, I'm betting "normal" is closer to 2,500 pounds). Surprisingly, the pin weight percentage is as low as 16%. As a full timer, I'd assume you're going to be carrying more- but that's just a guess.

For me, in your truck - I'd be over GVWR, but we're a family of 4 with all the stuff that goes along with kids. :-) Just us and our stuff/things we've added to the truck was a good 1,200 pounds and that was without any firewood or much at all in the truck bed. Obviously, you may not be (or you may be OK with exceeding GVWR, if you do).

[Ecclesiastes]

We have a home base a cabin in the Tennessee mountains. So we don't have to take everything with us and we are ready for a slower life. I was looking at the extra insulation package.thought the standard would give you 3 seasons though.do you have problems getting sights at national or state parks with the 41 feet length.

[PapaSmurf]

Ecclesiastes, I have a 2011 2500 6.7 CTD, 4x4, crew cab, short bed.

I pull a 2011 Silverback 29 RE (35 foot fifth wheel) that clocks about 10k empty and about 12k loaded. I have pulled this same trailer with a Ford F250, and now with the Dodge. It is night and day different. The Dodge is so steady it is actually possible to forget you are towing.

With the Ford I had moments of doubt and concern. With the Dodge I set the cruise on 68 or so and never have any trouble. The six speed auto does an excellent job and never has any trouble.

I love the built in brake controller and how it interacts with other systems in the truck. It knows when you connect the trailer and acts accordingly. When you turn on the tow haul (which I rarely do) and engage the exhaust brake (more frequent than the tow haul) you have one of the best hill towing experiences you can imagine. We have crossed Monteagle on I-24 on several trips, if you can get the truckers out of your way the truck will drop from 6th to 5th and keep on pulling. Going down the other side the exhaust brake and braking computer takes over and you cruise right on down. We make several trips per year in the mountains in the Monteagle/Altamont area and I have never felt as safe and secure as I do with the Dodge.

I have also pulled my best friend's 37' park model bumper pull with this truck for about 100 miles. I did not have an equalizer or sway control for this site to site move. The truck pulled the trailer like a champ. I could have pulled the trailer to Florida on just the hitch ball. It was that stable.

I cannot speak about the units you are looking at, but I can tell you that you have one heck of a tow vehicle and I do not think you will be disappointed.

As I said at the beginning my fifth wheel weights about 12k loaded. I do not know what 4k more would feel like or how it would change the towing dynamics of the truck, but at 12k loaded it is a very comfortable experience.

[Ecclesiastes]

Wow thanks for the great input. There is a v 365 vstb that I really am also looking ats got same tongue weight but it's a light weight at about 2000 lbs less gross what kind of fuel consumption did you get with your diesel.i got 20.9 doing 75 up into the Tennessee mountains (no towing ) and 23-26 doing 68 mpg without a/c and sunroof open /back window open on Florida flat ground

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes

We have a home base a cabin in the Tennessee mountains. So we don't have to take everything with us and we are ready for a slower life. I was looking at the extra insulation package.thought the standard would give you 3 seasons though.do you have problems getting sights at national or state parks with the 41 feet length.

We did get whatever upgraded insulation package was available at the time. We only really camp in cool weather - daytime temps as low as the 40s. But in cooler weather, the floor is cold. When I bought mine (one of the early ones of this model), there weren't heating or cooling vents in the 1/2 bath. I'm not sure of newer models have it or not. As well, the bunk above the outdoor kitchen runs according to whatever temperature it is outside.

[PapaSmurf]

I get about 10 mpg pulling the trailer at 68 mph. I do a lot of mountainous travel, so that does not help my towing mileage.

[prairiecamper]

We have a 2013 silverback 29 re, and 2008 Ram 2500 CTD mega cab. The silverback is one of forest rivers lighter pin weight trailers around 1650 lbs empty I think! Not sure what our weights are but plan on scaling all the axles soon to get an idea of axle weights and combined gross weight. But I can say that pulling it to Branson and back it felt very stable with no undesirable characteristics! ( oh firestone ride rites on rear axle) I have been pulling trailers (RV) for about 20 years and experienced swaying, fishtailing, porpoising, blown tires and other bad things. This truck and trailer seem to be a good fit!

[prairiecamper]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf

I get about 10 mpg pulling the trailer at 68 mph. I do a lot of mountainous travel, so that does not help my towing mileage.

We have almost the same setup, and the same generator. Was wondering where you carry your generator and is it permanently mounted?

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by prairiecamper

We have almost the same setup, and the same generator. Was wondering where you carry your generator and is it permanently mounted?

I built a bumper mount rack for the rear of the camper. I have the generator semi-permanent mounted near the electric port on the camper. It is loose bolted (so it can freely vibrate on it's rubber feet), and cable locked to the rack. Being a Honda, you barely notice it running outside when you are watching TV. We take the generator off during the winter months and store it in the garage. We keep the cover on it when not in use.

My friend has the same camper and carries his the same way, neither of us have ever had any trouble and he frequently travels to Florida, Texas, and the Carolina's with his running.

We normally start the air a couple of days before we head out on a trip. When we disconnect the shore power, I start the generator and keep the main air running while we travel. Most of our trips are 2 - 3 hours from home and the camper use to get really hot during the travel. Now when we arrive the camper is nice and cool.

[JFM-jr]

Are the bumpers on the 5th wheels that much stronger than the travel trailers? I know on my travel trailer I was warned of not mounting much more than a bike rack reliably.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by JFM-jr

Are the bumpers on the 5th wheels that much stronger than the travel trailers? I know on my travel trailer I was warned of not mounting much more than a bike rack reliably.

No, in fact the ultra-light 5th wheel's bumpers are not even rated for a bike rack.