7700 lb tow cap, but WD not recommended

[Borwick]

At the risk of getting another insult about my tow vehicle, I've come across an odd issue with my new tow vehicle which replaces a GM SUV.

The trailer is small. 18' box with 2' hitch (20.6 ft).

The wheelbase of TV is 108". The formula of WB/5 = 21.5 ft. (OK)

The trailer's GROSS weight is 4900 lbs (dry 2900). Comfortably under the 7700lbs cap.

Tongue (dry) is 300 lbs. Vehicle has 550lbs tongue limit.

What the problem is, in fine print, the TV says NOT to use a "Weight Distribution" hitch.

In my old TV, I used a typical spring bar setup, but I did not really need it, as the Escalade had air adjusting suspension, keeping it level. I used it anyway because I understand that it's moving more weight forward on the steering portion of the vehicle. I stopped using the sway-friction bar because it was stable no matter what passed me, or how high the cross-winds were. I could even invoke some wobble, and it would straighten out in quickly.

The NEW TV is shorter by 8", a 2011 Range Rover Sport, but weighs 5500lbs, just 500 less than the old one. However, it has no springs, just 4 air bags which are constantly kept at a level ride. The LR's have air reservoirs which make sure the vehicle quickly recovers from any incorrect profile.

I've not towed the trailer yet with the RRS, as it's in winter storage. My question is whether it's OK to tow this without WD, but using the FRICTION bar only.

If I find some control issues, is it OK to use TWO FRICTION bars without the WD?

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Borwick

The NEW TV is shorter by 8", a 2011 Range Rover Sport, but weighs 5500lbs, just 500 less than the old one. However, it has no springs, just 4 air bags which are constantly kept at a level ride. The LR's have air reservoirs which make sure the vehicle quickly recovers from any incorrect profile.

I've not towed the trailer yet with the RRS, as it's in winter storage. My question is whether it's OK to tow this without WD, but using the FRICTION bar only.

If I find some control issues, is it OK to use TWO FRICTION bars without the WD?

I may be the wrong guy to ask (I think the Range Rover dealer should be your first stop) but I have to stick my snoz in, so here goes. I think your answer resides in "it has no springs, just 4 air bags which are constantly kept at a level ride." The major reason for the WD hitch is to level the tow vehicle by moving tongue weight to the front wheels. Sounds like you have full time auto-leveling as well as full time 4wd. The rear bags should automatically inflate more PSI than the front to shift that load forward.

As to the friction snubbers, I think one should be plenty. Why do you think two might be needed? The friction type sway control is used to dampen out sway AFTER it happens. If sway is not an "issue" based on your TV to camper length and height, then one should be plenty in case of an unanticipated cross wind (like coming out from behind sheltering trees on the highway).

PS: Sounds like you did your homework on the TV choice, so happy trails!

[BigDTx]

It may be overkill what you are trying to do. If the trailer only weighs 2900 with a 300 tongue weight, then you probably do not need the WDH as long as you have the tow ball set up to where the trailer is level when towing.

I pulled a 2200 lb (dry) popup with 350 Tongue weight with a Mazda Tribute and never had a problem with sway or towing level (6cyl romt wheel drive).

just my opinion on the WDH.

as far as anti sway goes, it never hurts to add this to your setup and they do help to control the load.

[acadianbob]

NOt sure about your Land Rover but often vehicles without an actual frame, like the Honda Ridgeline, do not want you to use a WD hitch. I'm betting your LR is a unibody without an actual frame.

[Borwick]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

NOt sure about your Land Rover but often vehicles without an actual frame, like the Honda Ridgeline, do not want you to use a WD hitch. I'm betting your LR is a unibody without an actual frame.

Actually, this thing has a more rigged frame than most any other SUV, due to the need to articulate its wheels on rock crawls. The air-bag suspension can recognize 1 wheel up to the bump stop, another wheel extended all the way down, and balance its air springs to provide equal contact weight all around. Just like the old Citron cars, you can raise and lower the whole vehicle with a button.

That's why this thing weights as much as full-size SUV, but at an BMW X5 size. The hitch is actually IN the frame itself, not a cross-member between frame rails. Rover builds a full hydroformed wrap around frame, not two rails and cross members. Then the cabin itself is a self-contained unibody on top of the frame. Again, weight.

A similar question I have on the Rover Forum so far indicates that it's because the suspension system gets confused by odd weight behavior. Most people on that forum have boats or car trailers, not giant boxes susceptible to every gust of air. Rovers are notorious for poor reliability as it is, and trying to confuse the computer is asking for trouble, (as I've heard).

The Rover recognizes a trailer being pulled, and kicks in behavior regarding transmission, engine characteristics, dynamic traction control (sway correction), and so on. However, I'd rather have the whole package work right without relying on some computer software trying to correct my driving.

I write software for a living, and it's rare that something doesn't goes wrong at some point.

[shineysideup]

Originally Posted by acadianbob

NOt sure about your Land Rover but often vehicles without an actual frame, like the Honda Ridgeline, do not want you to use a WD hitch. I'm betting your LR is a unibody without an actual frame.

I wonder if this relates more to the hitch design than the vehicle. All hitches are NOT created equal. Just look at some hitches on the market that are rated class 3 (scary). There are some RV dealerships that will reinforce or make custom hitches in order to provide a better towing experience. I know because I have one!

I have a unibody T.V. using a W.D. hitch and friction sway control.

happy camping!

[Borwick]

I believe your point is true. The rating of 7700 lbs and 550 tongue sounds great, but there must be some issue about the torque the WD setup puts on the frame in this case. Rover says that all leveling is handled with their suspension control.

Rover has an odd way of attaching the receiver to the frame. It's nice from the asthetic standpoint, but weird in the functional sense.

Would take a lot to explain, but sounds like this is it.

Therefore, my question is mostly about managing my sway issues with friction bars and no WD. Hope I can do it because its a little late to change my mind now.

They advertise for 2011 a Sway Control System, called TSA (Trailer Stability Assist) which manages any odd wagging purely through controlling the engine, wheel power, and individual wheel braking. Hope the engineers know what they're doing.

[Borwick]

Well I finally allowed my new TV to meet our TT. As described in my opening post on this thread last year, I traded in my Escalade for a Range Rover Sport.

Range Rover gives you nothing after spending a fortune for an SUV. I had to buy a wiring kit ($129) to provide a place to plug in the trailer, a receiver attachment ($380) that snaps into the frame, and then purchased a Prodigy 2 controller. About the only accommodation was that the under-dash plug is a Ford design, and so this was pretty easy.

However, adding in the trailer wiring was either $400 labor from the dealer, or a learning experience for me. Being a hands-on guy, I did it myself. Had to totally disassemble the rear of the vehicle, removing all plastic fascia from the rear bumper, removing inside panels, and doing all kinds of tricky stuff just to get the harness in. 5 hours later, it was in, but no real way to test it other than with a test probe. The Range Rover's ECU (computer) keeps many power functions from working unless it "knows" the trailer is back there. Since the Range Rover is designed to run through almost 2.5 feet of water, it has all these "features" to prevent problems while swimming.

Finally, this week, we did the test. As you can see, it's all lit up, so my wiring was ok. With the 375 hp Jaguar engine, it pulled it just fine. Without any WD, it leveled out quickly using it's air spring system. However, I can feel that when going over bumps or dips, ALL the tongue weight pushes only on the rear axles. This may take some getting used to.

The one cool thing is that when backing to hook up the trailer, you can actually lower and raise a Range Rover's suspension using the keyless remote. There is almost a foot of travel possible on these things. So I backed the ball under the tongue, dropped the suspension, backed in 3 more inches, then from outside the vehicle, raised the vehicle onto the trailer. Didn't need to use tongue jack.

On the freeway, I got it up to 70, and then initiated some swerving (without other traffic around). I had attached only the sway bar (no WD), and it seemed to stay straight on. However, I could sense I was being pushed a bit, but no wagging occurred.

I know that the real test will come when I'm not ready for it, but I hope it all works out. The Rover is one nice, smooth and quiet TV.

[MtnGuy]

Good report. Usually I am pro WDH, but on a vehicle with no springs, I just don't have enough information to justify a comment.....other than slow and easy does it. You stated that you got up to 70 mph.....beware ST trailer tires are rated at 65 mph maximum.

Regardless, IMHO a sway control system should be used on any conventional travel trailer.

[shineysideup]

Originally Posted by Borwick

Well I finally allowed my new TV to meet our TT. As described in my opening post on this thread last year, I traded in my Escalade for a Range Rover Sport.

Range Rover gives you nothing after spending a fortune for an SUV. I had to buy a wiring kit ($129) to provide a place to plug in the trailer, a receiver attachment ($380) that snaps into the frame, and then purchased a Prodigy 2 controller. About the only accommodation was that the under-dash plug is a Ford design, and so this was pretty easy.

However, adding in the trailer wiring was either $400 labor from the dealer, or a learning experience for me. Being a hands-on guy, I did it myself. Had to totally disassemble the rear of the vehicle, removing all plastic fascia from the rear bumper, removing inside panels, and doing all kinds of tricky stuff just to get the harness in. 5 hours later, it was in, but no real way to test it other than with a test probe. The Range Rover's ECU (computer) keeps many power functions from working unless it "knows" the trailer is back there. Since the Range Rover is designed to run through almost 2.5 feet of water, it has all these "features" to prevent problems while swimming.

Finally, this week, we did the test. As you can see, it's all lit up, so my wiring was ok. With the 375 hp Jaguar engine, it pulled it just fine. Without any WD, it leveled out quickly using it's air spring system. However, I can feel that when going over bumps or dips, ALL the tongue weight pushes only on the rear axles. This may take some getting used to.

The one cool thing is that when backing to hook up the trailer, you can actually lower and raise a Range Rover's suspension using the keyless remote. There is almost a foot of travel possible on these things. So I backed the ball under the tongue, dropped the suspension, backed in 3 more inches, then from outside the vehicle, raised the vehicle onto the trailer. Didn't need to use tongue jack.

On the freeway, I got it up to 70, and then initiated some swerving (without other traffic around). I had attached only the sway bar (no WD), and it seemed to stay straight on. However, I could sense I was being pushed a bit, but no wagging occurred.

I know that the real test will come when I'm not ready for it, but I hope it all works out. The Rover is one nice, smooth and quiet TV.

I have a couple questions. How come you took off your towing mirrors for the photo? Mckesh makes some really ugly but totally functional tow mirrors that fit anything. You NEED to be able to see past the rear of your trailer for a couple reasons. 1. To see anyone doing crazy things behind you (like passing in inappropriate situations) 2. To see any trailer sway that may be happening, you can't react to something you can't see!

I personally would take this setup to some certified scales (cat, flying J etc.) and see where you are at for your axle ratings, a good $10 investment in my opinion...

It can be so tempting to speed but you really shouldn't (the ST tires and 65 mph thing already mentioned).

Great looking combo, wish my vehicle was white also!

happy camping,

[Borwick]

I am aware of the mirror thing. However, this model Surveyor is only 7' wide. I can actually see the side plane of the trailer at the tip of the mirrors. The Rover is 85" at the mirror tips.

The most important issue is being able to back it up straight. Without seeing the sides, this is an impossible task.

The curb wt of the Rover is about 5500. The rear axle max weight is over 3700 lbs and is 2600 lbs unloaded, and my tongue weight loaded is no more than 500 lbs. I've got some wiggle there. I don't load anything in the TV but bikes on top, and some fluffy stuff in back.

When I tow, I leave the fresh water tank empty, and this is about 400 on the tongue in that condition. This is really a light unit. Even with clothes, beer, food, beer, chairs, beer, and other necessities, it barely gets to 4500 lbs. (We have a local landfill with a scale).

Cheers!

[crocus]

" I can actually see the side plane of the trailer at the tip of the mirrors."
==============================================
Unfortunately, that is not acceptable nor safe. Get some towing mirrors for the safety of everyone on the road.

[shineysideup]

Originally Posted by crocus

" I can actually see the side plane of the trailer at the tip of the mirrors."
==============================================
Unfortunately, that is not acceptable nor safe. Get some towing mirrors for the safety of everyone on the road.

I have also added convex mirrors to my vehicles' mirrors (far outside edges). Even with my mckesh mirrors, I have "caught" cars in a blind spot between the two mirrors. Thanks to the convex mirrors, I was glad I could see them before I made my lane change (I'm sure they were, they just didn't know it! ). Get the mirror's, you'll wonder how you towed without them!

I also load 98% of my stuff in the trailer... I've taken my rig to the scales and have a really good idea of room in regards to weight I have before exceeding my rear axle ratings (and tires also). I have a 1/2 door on my trailer and a folding bunk bed so even the bikes can go inside.

happy camping,

[SKL N BNS]

I know I am a little late on this post but My experience is very pertinent to this discussion.
I own 2 L322 Range Rovers 2008 and 2003 and have towed with both.
Currently I tow a Forest River Cherokee Wolf Pack toy hauler GVW 7400 lbs
Have done about 7,000 miles on this setup across the U.S. On mountain grades never slowed below 50 mph. Brake control hookup requires knowledge of electronic systems and somewhat difficult secondary to the light control module in the vehicle, but I can walk anyone through the process in 10 minutes or less. In 2 weeks I am off on this years trip another 6,000 miles I am installing one sway control bar to eliminate my minimal sway at 70+ mph. I am considering purchasing the supercharged HSE though as the increased HP and especially torque will dramatically increase performance. Considering the smaller wheelbase of the sport, I would advise anyone towing a trailer of this size to be safe and install sway control on both sides of the trailer. But not with a Weight Distributing hitch.
If anyone needs any help with L322 towing, electrics you can contact me.

Car crazy and maintain and repair all
2003 Range Rover HSE
2008 Range Rover HSE
2012 Boss 302 Mustang
2001 Jaguar XK8
2002 Ferrari 360
1968 Austin Mini MK2 Automatic
1939 Dodge D 11 Coupe

Can help with all

I am registers with Fix Ya.com as a category expert on Land Rover
As Herbee63
1939 Dodge D11 Coupe

[Borwick]

We've already been out with this setup for Memorial weekend. Did a 600 mile round trip, through Northern Nevada and Northern California. We went from Lake Tahoe to Lassen/Burney Falls via 395 to 299, then 89-44-70-89 back.

I used 1 sway bar, and loaded the WD springs to just take the weight off the rear of the receiver. I did not crank it up to where the rear of the reciever was contacting the upper portion. This seemed to take the jounce out of the ride that is noticable without any spring.

During that weekend, there were truck/camper wind warnings on 395, and in spite of this, it handled perfectly.

The Jag engine (370hp) never suffered, and the MPG was 2 better than our Escalade.

[thebrakeman]

If the manual clearly says not to use a WDH, then don't use it. You could damage something (likely that suspension).

But those airbags are not transfering any weight up to the front, like a WDH would do for you.

I understand the benefit while offroading. If 1 of the tires is out of plane from the other 3 it will adjust the height of that wheel to give equal traction at all corners. Very cool!

But the effects of TW do not put any of the tires out of plane with the others. All 4 wheels are still in plane. When the TW compresses the rear (and lifts the front) weight is added to the rear and removed from the front. The airbags will sense the change in suspension travel, and adjust the pressure to level the vehicle. But that does not transfer any weight, unless you consider the weight of the air being added/removed.

You are right in being concerned about this, as your front wheels will not be loaded properly while towing. In wet & windy conditions, you might notice your stability control kicking in more often. But since this is not a system you can turn off (it's the primary suspension system), you don't have much of a choice.