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Old 07-24-2017, 03:06 PM   #1
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A question for mechanics and engineers

I tow a '98 Suzuki Sidekick with the 1.8L engine. The fan belt absolutely, positively will not stay tight! And it's getting worse. It used to last a few tankfuls, then just one tank, now it's down to 100 miles or so. At least six different shops at home and on the road have tried to find a reason and tightened the belt. Tired of paying, I invested in some extra long 15mm wrenches and have done it myself twice so far. (I'm now approaching the Alaskan Highway).

This engine has two belts: a serpentine that runs everything (including the water pump) but not the fan itself. The fan has a separate very short belt, about 12" when stretched out off the car.

Last year I had the belt replaced out of desperation. Shortly after, I took a run across the Bonneville Salt Flats for fun. As soon as I stopped, the radiator blew. I popped the hood and found the fan's belt missing! So as soon as the engine lost it's airflow, the radiator blew. The belt probably burnt off because the local shop found it's pulley bearings were in bad shape. They grinded hard when turned by hand after removal from the car.

I thought "Ah-hah, I finally found the problem!" and had a SUZUKI DEALERSHIP install a NEW SUZUKI pulley. But the symptoms did not change, it still gets loose. The new belt is about a year old and has been tightened at least 10 times so it finished any normal stretching long ago. And like I said, it's getting worse!

Each time it starts squealing, I raise the hood and push on it, finding it loose. The pulley itself feels perfect when turned by hand. All the shop mechanics and myself have found the adjustment (locking) bolts to be super tight, but the belt loose! ( I always verify it's tight when they're done).

So let's think about this. What holds the belt tight is the friction between the adjustment brace on the pulley and the engine block that is presses against when the bolts are tightened. So I thought maybe the bolts are a hair too long and are bottoming out in the bolt holes which disappear into the block. Yesterday while tightening the bolt, I removed the top one and carefully inspected the end. It is pristine, with a slight outward ridge left over from the manufacturing process, extending from the end of the bolt. There is absolutely no evidence that it has ever bottomed out.

Does anyone have any ideas how this belt keeps loosening? The brace must be moving across the block despite the friction provided by the bolts. I did not check the lower bolt so I guess it's conceivable that it's bottoming out but I doubt it.

Any ideas? Coaresly scratching the metal mating surfaces for more friction? Retrofitting to an electric fan? Hiring an excorcist?
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:26 PM   #2
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just a stupid guess. if I understand the fan belt runs from a pulley on the engine block to the fan (probably behind the radiator). the brace and bolts you mention are probably on the block. could the entire block be moving in relation to the fan hub when the engine is running? perhaps torque from the engine is moving the block a bit and then it settles back into the position you see it in when not running. as it moves it could affect the belt. the opposite would be the fan / radiator moving. just a guess.
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Old 07-24-2017, 03:46 PM   #3
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how about adding a star lock washer to the adjustment bolts...
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:48 PM   #4
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If I read this correctly he's already saying after the fact when the belt is loose that his bolts and nuts are still tight. I am a mechanic for a living so I will chime in. 1st are these guys running the car for 10 to 15 mins after setting tension on the belt and then re checking and setting tension again. Thats supposed to be the proper way to do that and just to make sure I would double check the part number on the belt.I have seen a lot of times where guys go off of a part number on the belt when they should have been looking up the proper belt number through a parts catalog or the parts store.
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
how about adding a star lock washer to the adjustment bolts...
what I was trying to get at is that the added lockwasher might put some anti-twist capacity on the adjustment arm... as a matter of trying that I would go with a lockwasher on each side of the arm... preferably a STAR lockwasher rather than a split ring type

and I agree...
maybe the belt is not correct... not the correct width, and as the belt wears in the V-groove of the pulley it narrows further and consequently gets loose from not being thick enough.
Quote:
Each time it starts squealing
This would account for the belt squealing.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:07 PM   #6
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Have you marked the position of the tensioning bracket to see if it's moving?

Have you removed it and checked for wear at the pivot point?
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:20 PM   #7
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Just my two cents worth, but have you tried measuring the belt when it's installed and again when it gets loose? Is the belt stretching instead of the idler puller moving? Also, have you checked the bearings on the fan itself? If those bearings are bad, I would think it would be possible to wear down the outer edges of the belt, causing it to sink lower into the pulley groove, thus making it looser.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:29 PM   #8
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You changed the fan pulley, but have you looked at the crank pulley? Could be worn, allowing the belt to slip, build heat and wear prematurely. Check for pulley alignment also. The other possibility is to do away with the manual fan altogether and install an electric fan.
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:39 PM   #9
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Have you thought about just removing the belt driven fan and replacing it with a 12 volt one like this. I know that it is not necessarily a fix but a darn good inexpensive work around.

JEGS Performance Products 52103

Universal Electric Fan 13" Diameter
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:53 PM   #10
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I've just gotta ask- does the fan belt turn the water pump?
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Old 07-25-2017, 01:59 PM   #11
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check for rust on the pulleys

i ran into a similar situation on a motorhome many years ago and the rust was working like sand paper on the belt and would grind it down in a short period of time. The belt would get so loose that it would actually come off.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:12 PM   #12
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25+ in auto parts... I was told a decent belt(Dayco/Gates) will not stretch...they break.

Are they looking the belt by application?(as prev mentioned?) I might guess something has changed??

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1...iagram-located

I assume it's a V-belt? See if this diagram looks correct
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:20 PM   #13
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1 make sure the Idler is spinning freely and does not any play around it's axle.
2 inspect both pulleys to see if they are 1 or 2 piece. If they are 2 piece insure they are mated together correctly. If they are not mated correctly the belt could be getting stuck between the half's. Quite the long shot, check the Idler first.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:25 PM   #14
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See if this applies...

help with power steering belt it too loose - Suzuki Forums: Suzuki Forum Site
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:58 PM   #15
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Alignment

Have you looked at the belt alignment between the two pulleys? Just get where you can see along the belt and make sure they are not skewed ... just a thought.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:03 PM   #16
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Thanks to all for the suggestions. I'm now in Dawson Creek, Mile 0 of The Alaskan Highway and headed north! Since I'm not broken down and only have occasional public wifi access, I'm going to wait until I return home in a few months to deal with this stupid belt issue. I've had it for 18 months, a few more won't kill me. I'll go back and review all your thoughts, thanks again.
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:44 PM   #17
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Be sure the belt is the correct WIDTH as well as length.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:19 AM   #18
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Belt alignment

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rango View Post
Have you looked at the belt alignment between the two pulleys? Just get where you can see along the belt and make sure they are not skewed ... just a thought.
My first thought also... it usually the simple item like this that gets overlooked!

If ok, then ensure you have the correct belt and pullys installed! Looks can be deceiving🤣
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaMan View Post
You changed the fan pulley, but have you looked at the crank pulley? Could be worn, allowing the belt to slip, build heat and wear prematurely. Check for pulley alignment also. The other possibility is to do away with the manual fan altogether and install an electric fan.
Most people don't understand how "V-Belts" actually work. They get their grip from the expansion of the sides as the belt bends over the "pulley", not by stretching the belt tighter and tighter.

I've seen this happen for years and when I tell people (including mechanics) to replace all the pulleys a V-Belt runs over the problem usually goes away.

When the old pulleys are examined the inside surfaces look more like "( )" than "\ /". Naturally proper alignment is important but look closely at the drive pulley attached to the crankshaft.

The modern serpentine "poly-V" belts are an improvement. Only surpassed by "Gilmer" belts that have actual drive lugs that match the drive/driven pulley's.
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