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Old 05-07-2013, 03:31 PM   #11
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The WDH is skewing your true tongue weight, you are only seeing it after it transfers weight to the front axle and any back to the trailer. This is not an accurate figure.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
Let's see if I can answer everything.

All 4 tanks were empty. We have a rear galley tank. Without looking, I'd say the other 3 are all ahead of the axles, but since they were empty, not a factor. It just occurred to me that we would not be able to travel with a full tank of fresh water without exceeding the max. trailer weight. We're not into dry camping so don't have to worry about that fortunately. But how can anyone sell a trailer that can be overloaded so easily by filling the fresh water tank?

Only the dog and myself and a few tools were in the truck when weighed, but I subtracted our dog's weight of 65 lbs. I forgot to put the spring bars in the truck bed, but that won't matter much. The tools weigh about the same as the bars.

This has got me wondering. Are factory installed upgrades/options like electric. stab jacks included in the factory UVW? It's looking like they aren't but I thought a UVW is what it ways on the way out the door? I have a feeling that they have a "stock" UVW and simply don't add on the factory installed options. Rather misleading....

I know about factory installed items like propane tanks & battery(ies). The electric awning was factory installed. Is the spare tire a factory or dealer item?

I calculated the tongue weight by taking the total weight of TV + TT hooked up (14,320 on 3 pads) and subtracting the weight of the trailer axles (5,980 when hooked up to TV) less the weight of the TV (7,780 when unhooked from the trailer). I *think* I have this right?

The only outside storage is a pass-through at the very front. It gets the BBQ, sewer stuff, hoses, chairs, outdoor carpet and the other usual outside stuff. The bed is at the front of the TT and has a storage area under the foot of the bed. Have only got light stuff in there at the moment, but there isn't much else heavy inside to shift into the bed storage spot.

We sure would not be able to mount a bike rack or generator on the bumper - not that I would tho. I am going to look today to see if it is feasible to relocate the spare tire to the tongue area. I see that Lance does this with their trailers. I am just in the process of relocating the battery to inside the pass-through nearest the hitch side. Have been planning to install a trailer tongue box but needed to move the battery somewhere else. Glad I didn't move somewhere behind the axles. Moving the battery rearward about 18-24" and adding the tongue box will probably result in a net zero weight difference on the tongue.

Yes, the hot water tank would have been full and the heater is at the very back.

I am still a bit shocked about the light tongue weight percentage and also the trailer weight being 240 lbs away from the GVW (6800 lbs). They sure cut the axle ratings of 2 x 3500 lbs close to the GVW.

Thinking out loud, the best idea for tongue weight so far is to try and put the spare tire up front. I'm not sure if it hangs down a bit would be an issue. The stair assemblies hang down a lot as do the elec. stab. jacks.

I'm also thinking of getting a tongue scale so I can check the weight easily when I want to.
I have never seen the factory install the propane. 4.2 lbs per gallon.

I also have not seen them install batterys as the may sit on the lot for weeks / months and without a battery disconnect they would all be dead.

I had to wait 1 extra day to pick up my flagstaff in 05 as the spare tire and bracket weren't installed yet as well as the awning.

Sometimes dealers order them without some items as it may be cheaper for them to install.

The uvw is what unit weighs going out the door but trully add ons from the dealer make that number go up by hundreds of lbs easy.

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Old 05-07-2013, 03:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
Truck was weighed on it's own. The trailer was weighed hooked up to TV with WDH bars hooked up. I didn't think you need to weigh the trailer on it's own?
You do not need to weigh the trailer on it's own, but to get accurate measurements, you need to cross the scales 1 time without the spring bars in place. I believe your tongue weight is much more than 560 lbs, which should put you over the 10% suggested weight percentage for your tongue weight.


Can you post your weight tickets, along with an explanation how things were setup up during each weigh-in ??

I don't think we can give you an accurate tongue weight if you didn't make 1 pass without the spring bars, but we may be able to understand your setup a little better.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:10 PM   #14
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Ahhh, so I need to unhook the bars on one pass.... So it's three passes total? One with the truck by itself, one with the trailer hooked up but with the bars disconnected and one with the bars connected to determine the weight transfer? I missed reading anywhere that you need to disconnect the bars and that you need 3 passes.

Still trying to wrap my aging head around the weight transfer in calculating the tongue weight. Back to the drawing board then and it will have to wait until the long weekend as the scale is too far away. At least I have accurate total weights for the truck and the trailer.

I know that it's the dealer that installs the propane tanks and batteries. But what good is a factory UVW if it doesn't include the things they installed before it left? It might be nice to know in advance so that if you really do want more NCC in the trailer, you can for example, decide to go with manual stab. jacks to save weight.

Sometimes the more I learn about RV stuff, I wish I really knew less about it. Then maybe I could relax more while camping, lol.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:30 PM   #15
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There is a thread here somewhere that posts the procedure for both travel trailers and 5th wheels.

Front truck wheels on plate one; rear wheels on plate two and camper wheels on plate 3.

A travel trailer needs 3 passes and a 5th wheel needs two.

Travel trailer:

Pass one: Truck with camper connected - WD bars ON

Pass two: Truck with camper connected - WD bars in the pickup's bed

Pass three: Truck only (2 plates used) - drop travel trailer in lot and go back and weigh.

5th wheel:

Pass one: Truck and Camper connected

Pass two: drop camper and weigh truck only.

Post your weigh tickets and we can help you figure out where you stand.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:30 PM   #16
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Ahhh, so I need to unhook the bars on one pass.... So it's three passes total? One with the truck by itself, one with the trailer hooked up but with the bars disconnected and one with the bars connected to determine the weight transfer? I missed reading anywhere that you need to disconnect the bars and that you need 3 passes.
Those 3 weigh-ins will give you all sorts of good information.

Make sure all passengers and cargo stay in the same place each time across the scales. I put my spring bars in the back of the truck bed when making the pass without the spring bars in place.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:03 PM   #17
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Here are the numbers from the scale tickets. I made two passes with the truck and TT hooked up. The second one was after I increased the weight transfer to the front TV axle.

Truck only: steer axle - 4300 lbs, drive axle - 3480 lbs. Total = 7780 lbs.

First pass with TV + TT: steer axle - 4220 lbs, drive axle - 4260 lbs, trailer axle - 5840 lbs. Total = 14,320 lbs.

Second pass with TV + TT & after increasing WDH: steer axle - 4460 lbs, drive axle - 3880 lbs, trailer axle - 5980 lbs. Total = 14,320 lbs.

The difference between the first and seconds passes is one extra serration on the Reese serrated washers on the shank and one less chain link. While I may not have gotten the true tongue weight, the numbers show that tightening up the WDH transfers weight both to the front TV axles and to the TT axles. TV front went up by 240 lbs while TT went up by 140 lbs. Not sure if this is useful info? I can say though that getting the chains hooked up on the second pass was really tough so that should indicate right there that I am transferring far too much weight.

The truck GVWR is 9600 lbs, front GAWR is 5600 lbs & rear is 6100 lbs, GCWR is 23,000 lbs. TT GVWR is 6800 lbs, CCC is 1320 lbs, NCC is 1563 lbs, UVW is 5237 lbs and listed hitch wt. is 518 lbs. Truck hitch is good for 1250 lbs tongue wt. and 12,500 lbs towing. WDH has 800 lb bars and is rated 1200/12,000 lbs.

Is a tongue weight scale a useful tool to have? I have a feeling it'd be a bit of a waste of money since once you have been to the scales and have it all figured out, you are okay unless you make mods with significant weight changes.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:14 PM   #18
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Is a tongue weight scale a useful tool to have? I have a feeling it'd be a bit of a waste of money since once you have been to the scales and have it all figured out, you are okay unless you make mods with significant weight changes.
I'd like to let others who are better with CAT tickets advise on your particular situation.

But, I can tell you that I have owned a Sherline trailer tongue weight scale (with 2K lb gauge) and find it extremely useful. Basically, it helps when my situation changes from...

Whole family to just me alone with dog
Two-week trip to 2-day weekend

Basically, I like to reweigh the tongue and adjust my Equal-i-zer if the rig has changed a lot since the last trip.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:28 PM   #19
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Triguy, if you add or shift weight, if you adjust your hitch, how do you know if you are transferring weight appropriately between the 3 sets of axles?

Yesterday I had a Sherline which was a good price set up to snipe on ebay , then it disappeared before the listing expired. May keep watching for another good price. Interestingly, the Sherline scales seem to fog up judging by ebay listings? Maybe a little headlight cover restorer would work.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:54 PM   #20
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Triguy, if you add or shift weight, if you adjust your hitch, how do you know if you are transferring weight appropriately between the 3 sets of axles?
Well, here's the thing. When I first got the trailer, I packed the trailer to the gills, put my family in the truck and setup my Equal-i-zer using their wheelwell measurement instructions and then weighed at a scale (and with the Sherline). I noticed that the Equal-izier instructions actually gave me pretty good loads to my front and rear axles and the TT's axles. We also test drover with different Equal-i-zer setups and TWs to see what I thought felt better. It was fun (for me).

If we change the load dramatically (e.g., I camp alone. We pack barely enough for a weekend, etc), I adjust my Equal-i-izer accordingly using their instructions to measure the wheel wells.

Then with the Sherline, I use that to keep my TW at an estimated 13%, which is my preference for my rig. I have a good idea of the amount of weight we take out of our trailer when fully loaded and can transfer the load within the trailer to effect the TW. The Sherline helps me to do that.

The criticism of this method might be that I am estimating something (the weight taken out of the trailer). Yes, but my defense would be that its close enough for my comfort to do it this way. I'm trying not to take it to an extreme and weight the TV/TT setup for different trips, etc. I would like to, because I'm wired that way, but actually, my DW, kids and dog won't sit still in the truck anymore for me to go through the whole shebang again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myredracer View Post
Yesterday I had a Sherline which was a good price set up to snipe on ebay , then it disappeared before the listing expired. May keep watching for another good price. Interestingly, the Sherline scales seem to fog up judging by ebay listings? Maybe a little headlight cover restorer would work.
Mine hasn't fogged but its stored away and I'll check it when I can.
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