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Old 10-14-2017, 10:02 AM   #41
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My 2 insurance agents -- 1 a large national and the other an independent- both say insurance companies will cover. They will probably drop you and finding another company can be a challenge and will surely be expensive. One reason I went from the F250 to F350 my lawyer stated not to worry about that part but the civil suit will cost a fortune to defend and chances of coming out unscathed from that is slim to none. He said even upgrading tires and anything else to increase safety and decrease chances of an accident will help in court and to keep you out of court. Keep those receipts along with service records. He also said if in an accident with an overloaded truck or RV your children can probably retire young.
Granted...lawyers will try anything, but, think of the variables. Depending on the severity of the accident. Food scattered on road, cleaned up thrown away...how much did it weigh ? Water tanks ruptured...how much water was in the tanks ? no way to determine. Looking at some court cases today...Weather, speed, fatigue, distractions, all seem to be the biggest factors in crash investigations. I always say...with cell phones and the more toys they put in cabs, the more accidents you'll find due to distractions.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:04 AM   #42
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It's not that the Lawman will get you. He probably won't. I think that's mostly a red herring argument.

But you hit someone and their lawyer will figure out you MIGHT be overweight, and you will lose that one. That's what I think.

I still can't see why it's done. Well I do......it's still just one thing......."I want to justify keeping the truck/vehicle I have no matter what"......so numbers get spewed and anecdotal evidence comes out. I get it. Not even sure I blame them. But it isn't really a valid argument without physics.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:22 AM   #43
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It's not that the Lawman will get you. He probably won't. I think that's mostly a red herring argument.

But you hit someone and their lawyer will figure out you MIGHT be overweight, and you will lose that one. That's what I think.

I still can't see why it's done. Well I do......it's still just one thing......."I want to justify keeping the truck/vehicle I have no matter what"......so numbers get spewed and anecdotal evidence comes out. I get it. Not even sure I blame them. But it isn't really a valid argument without physics.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:58 AM   #44
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Is the pay that much better in Canada? Can't imagine trying to survive there on a typical middle class salary in the US. I would think that you'd have to bank almost double what you would in the US to have an equivalent lifestyle?????
Somewhat to pay for our social services but this person lives in the Maritimes in Eastern Canada and gets royally ripped off compared to Ontario which is price competitive with our cousins across the border. The Maritimes lack a competitive food market. However wonderful scenery but bring food with you or a full wallet.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:31 AM   #45
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Milk $9.00 a gal.??? What, no cows in Canada???? 🙀
This is 1 person who bought milk in 1 area and got ripped off and now the whole country sells milk for that price...not the case... $4.59 a gal in my neck of the woods.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:34 AM   #46
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This is 1 person who bought milk in 1 area and got ripped off and now the whole country sells milk for that price...not the case... $4.59 a gal in my neck of the woods.
Actually...he didn't say that, but that's the area he/her lives in.
I paid $2.65 yesterday at an ALDI by our house, so does that mean you're being ripped off ?
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:56 AM   #47
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I agree with most of what you said. You seem to be very conscientious of weights and liabilities from towing overweight which is good, but I couldn't help noticing that you are pulling a 12000 GVWR 5th wheel with a 2500 diesel. Have you been to the scales to see where you stand loaded and ready to camp?

Generally 3/4 ton diesels have a payload of 2000 - 2500 lbs
12,000 lb 5th wheels would generally have a pin weight of 12000 X (20-25%) = 2400-3000 lbs.
You also have an auxiliary fuel tank in the bed that would add another 300+ pounds.
I don't see how you wouldn't be overweight as well, from just the pin weight and extra fuel tank, before you put anything or anyone in the truck

I am not the weight police, and your truck may be quite capable of handling your 5er considering most 3/4 ton trucks are de-rated on paper to stay within the 10,000 lb limit. I just found your setup curious in light of your arguments for weighing and liability from towing over spec. If you have scaled it, and you're good, then I stand corrected.
As a matter of fact, yes I did. This is why I suggested the OP do likewise. Less than 2 months ago, when I did have my aux tank in the truck and full. (It is removable so I don't have it in the bed when Im not actually needing and using it)

The gross on my camper, Per Wildcat is 12200. I came in at 12,100. Towing capacity is 15,000 for a 5er with my truck, per the owner's manual, diesel supplement.

This is even with the main tank full, 39 gallon Aux tank full, two ice chests in bed with Misc wood for fire, etc, we were still 400 under GVWR on the truck with a pin weight of just over 2200.

It helps that I have a 2WD truck. The 4WDs have the same GVWR but can actually load about 400 lbs less because the weight of the 4WD mechanism and xfer case are added to the empty weight of the truck, leaving a lower payload capacity.

I do indeed practice what I preach. The CAT scales say I am golden, and I have the two weigh sheets to prove it (even to the police if need be)!

Id have to be some sort of Jackass to offer up a suggestion like this without having actually done it myself........But I promise not to get into Politics *S*

I just do not want anyone to get into trouble or heartache if it can be avoided.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:58 AM   #48
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Not doubting it....but never seen it done, or ever hearing of it.
I'm just basing this on my cousin that lost a trailer about 3 years ago. A-frame snapped on interstate and trailer disintegrated on the road. They cleaned up the pieces, filed a claim, insurance paid and it was done. Police report said defect and weight was never mentioned.
An A Frame weighs nothing. You can probably pull it with a sedan using a bumper hitch, like we pulled our boat when I was a kid. I do not think anyone on earth would think an A Frame would be over a pulling limit.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:21 PM   #49
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An A Frame weighs nothing. You can probably pull it with a sedan using a bumper hitch, like we pulled our boat when I was a kid. I do not think anyone on earth would think an A Frame would be over a pulling limit.
I don't think he meant an A-frame trailer like a Rockwood A122.

I think he meant the front a-frame part of some kind of trailer. But he never mentions what kind of trailer; could be a popup, an A-frame, a full size trailer; so who the heck knows what he means?
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:39 PM   #50
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Is the pay that much better in Canada? Can't imagine trying to survive there on a typical middle class salary in the US. I would think that you'd have to bank almost double what you would in the US to have an equivalent lifestyle?????
No kidding, the rate of inflation especially on food items has reached disgustingly high levels over the last 2 years. 12% - 15% higher minimum wages year over year, higher taxes and new taxes on everything!!! Sorry wrong, they call them levies now.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:42 PM   #51
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Sorry wrong, they call them levies now.
A tax by any other name.......................Is STILL a TAX!

They aer just playing Political Games with the verbiage!
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:46 PM   #52
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An A Frame weighs nothing. You can probably pull it with a sedan using a bumper hitch, like we pulled our boat when I was a kid. I do not think anyone on earth would think an A Frame would be over a pulling limit.
8000# trailer. not pulling that with a sedan. The "A" frame... aka front of trailer where the hitch and front jack are located.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:48 PM   #53
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8000# trailer. not pulling that with a sedan. The "A" frame... aka front of trailer where the hitch and front jack are located.
I know what that A frame is, I obviously misread and thought it was a Pop-up A Frame camper
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:49 PM   #54
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My issue with those that treat these weight ratings like the word of God is they are set for the lowest common denominator. Can a truck safely tow way over it's rating even double over? Absolutely on a cool, calm, clear, level, road at a reasonable speed. Can it do it downhill in a tropical storm at 70 mph? No but according to the book you can if you are at that number. Will something break if you are even 3 times over your payload and on a nice smooth road, no. But drive over a curb that way or go off road and be ready for problems. Even where the payload is distributed makes a difference. On my truck the payload limit looks like it assumes most of it would end up ofbthe front axle, if you look at the front and rear ratings independently of the overall (which is how they weigh professional trucks on a scale) you can have much more payload if you get it more centered over the rear axle. That said putting 100% of the payload hanging on the hitch 4 feet behind the axle is going to be far worse than a load 120% of rating but slightly forward of the rear axle like a 5th wheel in a long bed. But according to the "law" of the number it doesn't matter, the limit is some magic line above which you are dead and below you are golden.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:50 PM   #55
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It's not that the Lawman will get you. He probably won't. I think that's mostly a red herring argument.
Really?

Ever see them on the side of the road with a portable scale weighing trucks and campers.............I have
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:51 PM   #56
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Report was structural defect with no cause. Glad I brought this up. Had to call cousin and haven't talked to him in about a year. It was a good catch up on our families.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:06 PM   #57
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Bah ha ha ha!!

You guys are so funny!!! ARM CHAIR LAWYERS!

Show me anywhere there has been a case where WEIGHT caused an accident? or a Lawsuit? There was other factor that caused the accident and that is what any LEO or Insurance company will go after!!
Sadly even the Tracy Morgan accident, was caused by a tired driver.. Nobody checked to see if the Tractor/Trailer was overweight... not saying it was but, a lot of these companies will overload them since they will not be going thru scale houses!!

Other factors.
A) Speeding is at the top of list, ask any LEO!
B) Distraction.. Cell phones, Radio and Kids asking "Are we there YET?"
C) Road Conditions
D) The idiot that speeds up and then cuts in front of you, just to get off the Freeway.
E) Sleepy, Tired, driving too long!!

Then the argument about brakes.... NO vehicle has the braking power to stop itself and a 10,000 lb trailer... i.e. why there is trailer brakes. Trailer brakes will stop the trailer and the truck brakes stops itself and some of load you have. Even a 18 wheeler Tractor can not stop 80,000 lbs that's why there are trailer brakes! Always check your trailer brakes, every time I start the truck as I am pulling away from somewhere, I activate FULL trailer brake to check that they are working!!!

A lot of us weekend warriors have no business being out on the road, this is why California has changed their Driver License laws, as of 2016 pulling any trailer over 10,000 lbs up to 15,000 lbs (2 axle trailer) MUST have a 5th wheel trailer endorsement on their license (written test). Above 15,000 lbs and or if you pull 3 axles trailer (most toy haulers) MUST have a Noncommercial Class A License.
If you have an accident or you get pulled over by the CHP, and you do not have these endorsements, by law you DO NOT have a license, A) your vehicle can be impounded, B) insurance company can deny all claims!

Noncommercial Class A License you have to have a driving test and a Valid Medical Card(which you have to be recertified every 2 years).

How did Ford come up with a 1/2 ton pickup that, on paper they can out pull or carry more weight than a 3/4. Well they beefed up the suspension, better tires. Then they change the rating, and it has nothing to do with the Federal Government, though your weight fees on the registration will go up!

So if you run up to the weight limit of any vehicle or go over a few hundred pounds, it is up to you to make the vehicle as safe as humanly possible.

Get tires the greatly surpass the weight you are carrying. Tires are the weak point of any vehicle. If you carry 4000 lbs then the tires should be rated for 6000 lbs or better.
Second SLOW DOWN. Just because the Speed limit is 65 or 70 does not mean you should drive that fast... 55 is plenty fast enough.

Now does it sound like I am being a arm chair Lawyer?
MAYBE... But a lot of what we do in LIFE is common sense!
So take every precaution you can, if the truck feels like it not doing its job then sadly you need to downsize the trailer or get a bigger truck!

I get the fact that it is not easy to just go out and buy a new truck(as some make it sound so easy to do), especially if you just bought it and it is year old, if you go to trade it in you would still have to cough up more money since most of us finance a truck and you are upside down on it!

I am sure this will start the flaming... but I have read so many of these and the weight police come out and start in on everyone.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:20 PM   #58
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"But a lot of what we do in LIFE is common sense!

How I wish I would hear more people make that same comment.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:32 PM   #59
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Really?

Ever see them on the side of the road with a portable scale weighing trucks and campers.............I have
Never.

Guess I'm sheltered. Never heard of anyone that has seen that........well, till now.

Live and learn.
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Old 10-14-2017, 01:48 PM   #60
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I seldom get pulled into these discussions.... I try to look away and not read the threads about pulling or hauling with over weight topics.
(however, I have read all 6 pages in this thread)

Justifying it simply because they have been doing it for years does not make it right.

It's just the fact that 'some' people are willing to take a chance.

A chance that could change their lives or the lives of some innocent victims forever!

I spoke to a fellow Canadian who had returned form California recently who was pulled over, by hwy patrol, and had his rig and paper work checked.
He did not have the proper (drivers) licencing to tow his particular size/weight of 5th wheel. His trailer was impounded.... he was fined and had to have his trailer retrieved by a qualified driver... all in all it cost him $4,000.00... lesson learned.

I know other states and provinces have specific requirements and restrictions regarding rv weights and licencing .

Here in B.C. an RV being towed that is over 4,600kg or 10,120lbs must have a code 07 endorsement on the driver's licence...I have mine.
The driver's insurance becomes void if there is "any" accidents if proper licencing is not obtained.
I asked the very question to my insurance broker... 'how do they know how heavy the trailer was at time of impact?'
The reply was that the adjusters are very familiar with rv accidents and they will have all the contents retrieved and weighed especially if there are fatalities. Otherwise they will estimate the weights for other claims.

So my point here is... if you are going to take the chance of killing yourself driving overloaded... that's your choice.
However, when you don't have the compassion for someone else's life , I get concerned.

.... sorry to vent....

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