Actual 1/2 Ton Towing Experience

[Trawlerphil]

I also posted this to the Tundra-Talk forum:
I thought I would pass on some perspective on towing a 2014 Flagstaff Super Lite Classic 8528RKWS 5th wheel at just under 9,000 lbs. My 2012 Tundra has a 5.7 V8, 4:30 differential, 6 speed transmission and 13.9” ventilated disk brakes. I have added a Pullrite Slider hitch, Load range E tires, Timbrin Suspension Kit, Hellwig helper springs and a Voyager trailer brake controller.

When I was a “newbie”, I read all of the horror stories from folks who say you can’t tow a 5th wheel with a half-ton pickup for all sorts of reasons. What I learned was the ¾ ton folks pick on the half ton folks and the one ton folks pick on the ¾ ton folks. The Freightliner folks pick on everyone and you will find people that never met a rule they didn’t like.

My take on the Tundra’s capabilities is tempered by my understanding of the relationships corporate lawyers have with engineers. If the engineers say a safe number is 18,000 lbs., a lawyer will reduce it to 16,000 lbs. “just to be safe from a product liability perspective”. My suspicions about capabilities were reinforced when the Toyota lawyers allowed a 2007 advertisement to air which suggests the Tundra is a lot more capable than specifications suggest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uubBXDANZHs

My guess is Toyota was pretty confident legally to air this advertisement.

We now have put 6,685 miles on our rig this year from New England to Florida and have passed through the Allegheny, Adirondack, Smokey, Appalachian, and the Green mountains. We even descended “The Gap” which is a 10% grade between Mad River and Glen Ellen in Vermont’s Green Mountains without problems.

Some of our observations follow:
1. I replaced the “China Bombs” on our 5er with load range E tires, but I run them at 70PSI rather than 80PSI. The stock tires were load range “C”.
2. I turn off all “nannies” when towing and I use the Tow-Haul setting. In the mountains I use the paddle shifter and never even think of using cruise control. Eyeballs do a much better job of anticipating hills than technology.
3. I can easily and safely do 70MPH on the highway, but the gas mileage drops to 8 or 9MPG. Get your wallet out if you want to go fast.
4. The Tundra got 10MPG on Florida roads at reasonable speeds.
5. So far, our 381HP and 4:30 rear end has been sufficient to get us up steep grades without embarrassing ourselves. This may change when we do a cross country “walkabout” through the Rockies next year.
6. Our “Tekonsha Voyager” brake controller is dated, but works well. Fine adjustments are easily made and it can be operated manually in an emergency.
7. I dropped down the Reese Revolution pin box to the lowest setting to increase the space above the bed rails to 5”. This is important if you aren’t always on flat roads.
8. My only gripe with the Tundra is it is impossible to shut off the “nannies” even with the TechStream software the dealers use. My rear tires are 1.4” taller than the front tires and spin 28 fewer revs per mile and this makes the nannies go crazy misinterpreting sharp turns on exits as wheel slippage.
9. I use synthetic 0W-20 oil and change it at 10,000 miles.
10. I installed a Furrion FOS48TAPK-BL observation camera on the back of the Flagstaff to use both in backing into campsites and observing who is behind me on the road.

Clearly, the above are my perceptions and my actual experience, YMMV…..

[timfromma]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Trawlerphil

I also posted this to the Tundra-Talk forum:
I thought I would pass on some perspective on towing a 2014 Flagstaff Super Lite Classic 8528RKWS 5th wheel at just under 9,000 lbs. My 2012 Tundra has a 5.7 V8, 4:30 differential, 6 speed transmission and 13.9” ventilated disk brakes. I have added a Pullrite Slider hitch, Load range E tires, Timbrin Suspension Kit, Hellwig helper springs and a Voyager trailer brake controller.

When I was a “newbie”, I read all of the horror stories from folks who say you can’t tow a 5th wheel with a half-ton pickup for all sorts of reasons. What I learned was the ¾ ton folks pick on the half ton folks and the one ton folks pick on the ¾ ton folks. The Freightliner folks pick on everyone and you will find people that never met a rule they didn’t like.

My take on the Tundra’s capabilities is tempered by my understanding of the relationships corporate lawyers have with engineers. If the engineers say a safe number is 18,000 lbs., a lawyer will reduce it to 16,000 lbs. “just to be safe from a product liability perspective”. My suspicions about capabilities were reinforced when the Toyota lawyers allowed a 2007 advertisement to air which suggests the Tundra is a lot more capable than specifications suggest.

My guess is Toyota was pretty confident legally to air this advertisement.

We now have put 6,685 miles on our rig this year from New England to Florida and have passed through the Allegheny, Adirondack, Smokey, Appalachian, and the Green mountains. We even descended “The Gap” which is a 10% grade between Mad River and Glen Ellen in Vermont’s Green Mountains without problems.

Some of our observations follow:
1. I replaced the “China Bombs” on our 5er with load range E tires, but I run them at 70PSI rather than 80PSI. The stock tires were load range “C”.
2. I turn off all “nannies” when towing and I use the Tow-Haul setting. In the mountains I use the paddle shifter and never even think of using cruise control. Eyeballs do a much better job of anticipating hills than technology.
3. I can easily and safely do 70MPH on the highway, but the gas mileage drops to 8 or 9MPG. Get your wallet out if you want to go fast.
4. The Tundra got 10MPG on Florida roads at reasonable speeds.
5. So far, our 381HP and 4:30 rear end has been sufficient to get us up steep grades without embarrassing ourselves. This may change when we do a cross country “walkabout” through the Rockies next year.
6. Our “Tekonsha Voyager” brake controller is dated, but works well. Fine adjustments are easily made and it can be operated manually in an emergency.
7. I dropped down the Reese Revolution pin box to the lowest setting to increase the space above the bed rails to 5”. This is important if you aren’t always on flat roads.
8. My only gripe with the Tundra is it is impossible to shut off the “nannies” even with the TechStream software the dealers use. My rear tires are 1.4” taller than the front tires and spin 28 fewer revs per mile and this makes the nannies go crazy misinterpreting sharp turns on exits as wheel slippage.
9. I use synthetic 0W-20 oil and change it at 10,000 miles.
10. I installed a Furrion FOS48TAPK-BL observation camera on the back of the Flagstaff to use both in backing into campsites and observing who is behind me on the road.

Clearly, the above are my perceptions and my actual experience, YMMV…..

Uh oh. You're using empirical evidence to challenge the validity of tow ratings. This won't be allowed to stand.

[herbike]

We bought our first 5er in '95, not knowing anything about all the hysteria about PU capabilities. We had a 92 Chevy 1/2 ton, 4WD, extended cab, short box. 350 cid V8 with automatic trans, don't know what the rearend ratios were.
Anyway we towed that thing around the NW without any problems, gross weight as much as 17,000#. I guess we should be dead by now according to the weight and spec's police.

[WFD]

All this but but no mention of what your actual scaled weights are vs your truck ratings....It would be interesting to know how close or how far apart the 2 are...this is what gives other readers the impression everybody can do it, but so many details are missing.

[BandJCarm]

I've had 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and now 1 ton dually. I've pulled bumper pull and 5th wheel (only with dually for 5th wheel).

When I had the 30' bumper pull, I pulled with 1/2 ton Silverado. I still have that truck, wife drives it. It pulled fair on level ground. But only fair. It wasn't fun, and it was difficult in any hill of any size, or if needing to pass, or any other thing other than flat level towing. I went to a 3/4 ton diesel and it was night and day and it was great.

Then I got a 5th wheel and the 3/4 ton wouldn't pull it ok, so I got a dually diesel. It does fine, but I've NEVER wished it was smaller, not pulling, parking, driving daily, never.

That's my personal experience. I realize almost every single discussion of 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton trucks is simply a matter of "I already have X truck and I can't buy another one, so help me justify keeping this truck with my big trailer".

I used to discuss it at length, with numbers. No more. Here's my advice now:

Go pull your XYZ trailer with your 1/2 ton truck, or pull your 5th wheel with a 3/4 ton. Go for it. You will know whether it can be done after you get started. However, if you ask for opinions, actually expect to get some. But I suggest you just go pull it and then report back. IF it pulls fine, you're golden. If not, you're not. No discussion is going to change anything, I'd guess.......even though it did for me.

Hope to see you out camping......in whatever truck.

[timfromma]

According to the literature I just read, the HIGHEST load capacity of any 2012 Tundra is 2090lbs for a 4x2 Regular Cab. Assuming 20% pin weight, the absolute maximum 5er you can tow and not be over weight is 10,450lbs and only if there is absolutely nothing else in the truck that didn't come standard. The biggest issue I have with people who tow more than they should is that if something fails, most likely the people to get hurt is whoever is unlucky enough to be behind you. Now yes, any truck can fail but being overweight just increases the likelihood.

[Blackrock]

Thanks for your story and how you have done towing in the real world. My 2016 Ram 1500 has been a great little truck towing my 5th wheel to Alaska and back and all around the western US.

[Cypressloser]

Nice write up, I'm sure the Tundra is a very capable truck.
But your report still leaves me clueless, you need to post the truck's and the trailer's spec's and the actual weights.
Your aftermarket suspension upgrades give me the feeling that your Tundra's stock suspension bottomed out due to the heavy load, also do you know what the transmission temperature is when climbing/descending the steep is. Why are the rear tires taller than the front tires if it as an adverse affect on handling? Why are you running 0w20 engine oil, wouldn't 5w30 be a better choice, help me out I'm no Toyota expert.

[Cowracer]

5.7liter V8 and 4:30 gears ought to pull just about anything. Stopping? eh... not so much.

What your not considering (along with most people who bite on the half-ton-towable myth) is that your trucks payload will not support the pin-weight of the trailer. Sure, you can "tow" 9K with your truck, but you can only put 1450 pounds of actual payload on whole truck. Your trailers DRY pin weight is 1360, so if you so much as fill your propane bottles, you are over on payload on your truck. That's not even counting weight of the hitch, cargo and whatever people you haul

I'm not one to tell anyone what they can or cannot do. Only what they should. You may have many, many thousands of miles of uneventful towing. But then again, you might not. And your margin of safety is razor-thin, or maybe even non-existent overall.

Tim

[bshort]

I was next to a Tundra the other day. All squatted down in the rear with it's nose in the air. Didn't look like fun to me. Reminded me of my old Ford Ranger carrying a load of rock in the bed.

[Joe_GA]

I had a 30 foot bumper pull behind a 2009 F-150. I figured all the numbers and I was within specs. However, even a minivan would push me around on the interstate. I've spent more money, but nobody pushes my current rig. No more white knuckle tows. Once you've gone dually, you'll never go back!

[Tom911]

I have an 08 Silverado 5.3 engine with a towing capacity of 7700. I live in those Appalachian Mts. The truck does ok. It is a 24 foot Salem Light 5900 empty. We are purchasing a 2500 next year.

[Palinduff]

I tow a Puma 253FBS 5th wheel, loaded about 8500lbs, pin is 1200 to 1300lbs depending. I have weighed it. I used to pull it with a 2011 F150, ecoboost, 3:73, payload 1840 and it towed great, hardly squatted. I wasn't too concerned about the towing even though I was 140lbs over my payload. But I decided that if I want to go on a long journey to far away lands, I should be at least legal so I considered a 3/4 ton, but I found the HD F150, ecoboost, max tow made more sense (now I'm about 500 lbs under my payload). I've got 2440lbs of payload now and it tows my Puma and my quad trailer with no problems, up hills, down hills, even with cross winds. Better mileage than a 3/4 ton and less expense all around.

[jimmoore13]

I once posted a controversial subject, and several senior members said, "Get the popcorn ready." I think that applies here.

[MilCop4523]

2016 Ford 3.5 Ecoboost with Max tow
2018 K-Z 331TH12 8600lbs
we don't haul with crap in the tanks, water in the other tanks
just the 2 adults under 375lbs
no generator
minimal food (cheaper to purchase in the USA where we generally go anyway (milk is 9 bucks a gallon in Canada $3.56 in Maine)
boneless skinless chicken in Canada 5 to 7 bucks a lb - $1.99 in Maine.

[jimmoore13]

I will say that 1/2 ton trucks have evolved a lot. My 2006 RAM 1500 has a tow rating of about 7700 pounds. Pulling my PUP (almost 4000) with a loaded bed (600 pounds tops), a couple of dogs and two adults, it works surprisingly hard. My last PUP weighed about 2200 all up, and I trashed the transmission on my Ford Explorer (3500 lb. towing capacity) yanking that thing over Colorado mountain passes on I-70.

I'm impressed that your Tundra seems to handle a fiver. But then, I'm impressed at the changes to 1/2 tons in general. No judgement here, but after my experiences with my two PUPS and TVs, my inclination is to have substantially more truck than trailer out here in the Rockies. Even with roughly 3000 pounds of tow capacity in reserve, my RAM with a 5.7 Hemi spends a lot of miles pulled down into second gear climbing our long mountain passes. A typical climb might be 5000 feet elevation change over the course of about 20 miles, and there's no place en route where my truck sees top gear. Meanwhile, diesel dualies pulling triple axle toy haulers pass me with ease.

Good luck with your Tundra and rig. Glad it's working for you.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by MilCop4523

2016 Ford 3.5 Ecoboost with Max tow
2018 K-Z 331TH12 8600lbs
we don't haul with crap in the tanks, water in the other tanks
just the 2 adults under 375lbs
no generator
minimal food (cheaper to purchase in the USA where we generally go anyway (milk is 9 bucks a gallon in Canada $3.56 in Maine)
boneless skinless chicken in Canada 5 to 7 bucks a lb - $1.99 in Maine.

Is the pay that much better in Canada? Can't imagine trying to survive there on a typical middle class salary in the US. I would think that you'd have to bank almost double what you would in the US to have an equivalent lifestyle?????

[Bose04]

We have been towing a Rockwood ultra lite 2440WS all season. No problems. Nose not ‘up in air’. Certainly the bed drops with weight of trailer a bit but not appreciably. Put on 20 ply rated tires and run at 45 PSI when towing. We live in the adirondacks run with tow haul on. No problems. We do have tekonsha brake assist Road we live on is a 10% grade and three miles down. No problems and not burning brakes.

[Yowman]

Doesn't your 5th wheel have a Reese Revolution kin pin? I'm just curious why you have a slider hitch.