Air bags vs overload springs

[emm-dee]

If you have the rear coil springs (Ram 1500) then the airbags have another benefit not related to towing or leveling, etc.

The combination of the hemi engine and no load in the bed means it doesn't take a lot of gas pedal to get the rear wheels spinning, especially on a wet road. This usually results in some aggressive wheel hopping. I put the Airlift 1000 system on mine and running 10 psi unloaded stops all that. Punch the throttle as hard as I want and the tires will break loose but don't jump up and down any more. And, like the 2500 with Airlift 5000 the highway stability is noticeably improved (with or without a trailer).

[Blackhat6mike]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

Air bags have issues in a few years, springs are forever.

Air bags and springs don't make your truck carry more.


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So what is the difference between a 2500 and a 3500 other than the differential gear ratio? I'm told by the dealer they have the same axles, just bigger and more leaf springs. If this is so, wouldn't adding more leafs increase the max load? Confused! I have the 2500 HD Duramax with "Super Springs".

[asquared]

Payload and gross rawr are established by the weakest link. We do not know what that weakest link is. It could be a tire, it could be a component in the axle, it could be a spring, it could be one thing or a combination of things. Not bring an automotive engineer I couldn't tell you but I will tell you, you will end up spending a check of a lot of money trying to band aid a 3/4 ton into a 1 ton and still not legally increase your capabilities. Not to mention it may be cheaper to trade for a used 1 ton with more capabilities.

[MillerTime]

Originally Posted by Blackhat6mike

So what is the difference between a 2500 and a 3500 other than the differential gear ratio? I'm told by the dealer they have the same axles, just bigger and more leaf springs. If this is so, wouldn't adding more leafs increase the max load? Confused! I have the 2500 HD Duramax with "Super Springs".

If you talking gm trucks there can be several things.
First off the gears on a gm diesel are all 3.73 and have been since 2001 models. So if someone told you different they are wrong.
2nd. The last 8 of a vin is the only way to actually tell any difference on any vehicle. Thats what we have to use to order almost any parts, and also why oriellys gets it wrong so often. Really 1500, 2500 etc is more a model designation than anything. You can have so much different with the same designation, its stupid.

Things that can be different and have over the years between "2500 and 3500" gm trucks. (This is not saying that this is the case all the time on these trucks, but these differences have been notice over the years that i have been working on them)

-brakes
-front torsion bar load rating (6 or 7 different options sometimes)
-torsion key indexes
- u-joints
-max allowable wheel size from factory
-rear springs
-drive shafts
-drive shaft ends
And you can probably find more.

One thing i learned after working for years at gm dealers is, you have to go off of vin, because that nameplate on the side is useless.

[PenJoe]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

Air bags have issues in a few years, springs are forever.

Air bags and springs don't make your truck carry more.


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The Ride-Rite bags on our '08 Sierra were trouble free for 6 years, I took them off before trading and would have used them on the '13 Siverado. The part numbers were different. I found that the top mount hole was round on the Sierra and elongated for the Silverado. Had I known the difference, I would have elongated the hole on the old set. I was that confident that the old set would easily have gone another 6 years trouble free. It is true that airbags don't increase load capacity, but they certainly level/smooth out the load you can carry.

Overload springs may/may not be forever, but the ride is. Air bags are also adjustable for the load-springs are not adjustable. As with air bags, you have the same max load factors. That's on the door plate.

[Dutchtexan]

Your freind should consider the "Torklift Quick Disconnect StableLoad" I added this to my 1/2 ton truck when I got my TT and helped even more to take some of the relieve off of my AirLift Air Bag system I already had. This site http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/new-gear-torklift-quick-disconnect-stableload[/URL]
Torklift Quick Disconnect StableLoad will show how it works and helps with the air bags. Super easy to install and helps to distribute the weight off of just the air bags, hope this helps.
__________________

[bareftn]

I sent many years working on med to heavy duty trucks if his spring bushing are worn out send the truck to a spring shop have them replaced and add a leaf or two heavy duty springs. I am not a air bag fan only on large trucks and watch your tire load rating. air bags may raise the bag end for weight but no side to side stability with them

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by bareftn

I sent many years working on med to heavy duty trucks if his spring bushing are worn out send the truck to a spring shop have them replaced and add a leaf or two heavy duty springs. I am not a air bag fan only on large trucks and watch your tire load rating. air bags may raise the bag end for weight but no side to side stability with them

When you say no improvement in side to side stability, are you talking about leaf springs? I know for sure that the stability increases when putting air bags inside the coils for coil spring systems.

[USMC2010]

Originally Posted by Dutchtexan

Your freind should consider the "Torklift Quick Disconnect StableLoad" I added this to my 1/2 ton truck when I got my TT and helped even more to take some of the relieve off of my AirLift Air Bag system I already had. This site http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/new-gear-torklift-quick-disconnect-stableload[/URL]
Torklift Quick Disconnect StableLoad will show how it works and helps with the air bags. Super easy to install and helps to distribute the weight off of just the air bags, hope this helps.
__________________

We had a Lance camper until December and our Firestone ride rite bags are still trouble free after 8 years. I only aired them until the overload spring just made contact for the best controlled ride. I was a tester for the stable load quick release and love them. I still use my airbags with but found the quick release stable loads to provide more ride improvement than just the bags did.


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[The Big Toe]

I knew a guy one time that every time he bought a new truck, it was the best one on the market. Whether it was Dodge, Ford or Chevy. Best one there was.

I don't want to be that guy. But I use the SuperSprings.

I think they work better with your suspension, they're 'progressive', they help prevent sway, they help prevent 'dolphining' and they help prevent axle wrap.

Airbags just take the weight of your rear-end and put it directly on your axle, creating a fulcrum and bypassing the torque box and underpinnings of your leaf spring suspension.

I didn't like that. So I got the SuperSprings.

But I have seen airbags work, and work well, on seriously loaded suspensions pulling seriously heavy loads.

There's a lot of people out there with airbags and a lot of people that keep going back and using them. So they must be good at what they do.

Maybe, in an HD situation, they're better suited..... Don't know that for sure. Strictly guessing.

I also know the supersprings were cheaper and I put them on myself. I could do it again in ten minutes. No lift, no taking off the tires and wheels. Just jack the rear end up and use a 6'' C-Clamp. Done.

But I leave them on all the time and don't notice any difference in ride quality. And being a guy, I'm a charter member of the 'more is better club' so I got the biggest ones......

Of course. Everybody's different

Good luck

[PenJoe]

I have installed Ride-Rite air bags on a Dodge Ram, GMC Sierra, and a Silverado over the past 10 years. Unassisted, I have never had to take off a wheel or jack up the vehicle. I had to remove the joust bumpers because that's where the bags attached. It took longer to find my tools and route the air lines to the rear bumper than it did to install the bags. I will concede it took longer than 10 minutes, No need to take on/off. Super Springs vs Ride-Rite is about a wash in dollars on a quick check. The bag sets we bought for each of the 3 vehicles was under $300 on sale.

Porpoising and sway have not been a problem with the Lance slide in on the Ram, and towing some pretty hefty loads and stiff cross winds (our last trip was 40 mph cross winds) with the Sierra and Silverado. No matter if you use springs or bags, the weight still ends up on the axle. The bags work in concert with the springs rather than instead of.

[The Big Toe]

Yuh, porpoising.

Sometimes, my brain just lets me down

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by PenJoe

I have installed Ride-Rite air bags on a Dodge Ram, GMC Sierra, and a Silverado over the past 10 years. Unassisted, I have never had to take off a wheel or jack up the vehicle. I had to remove the joust bumpers because that's where the bags attached. It took longer to find my tools and route the air lines to the rear bumper than it did to install the bags. I will concede it took longer than 10 minutes, No need to take on/off. Super Springs vs Ride-Rite is about a wash in dollars on a quick check. The bag sets we bought for each of the 3 vehicles was under $300 on sale.

Porpoising and sway have not been a problem with the Lance slide in on the Ram, and towing some pretty hefty loads and stiff cross winds (our last trip was 40 mph cross winds) with the Sierra and Silverado. No matter if you use springs or bags, the weight still ends up on the axle. The bags work in concert with the springs rather than instead of.

That highlighted statement sums it all up.

[Scotty]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

Air bags have issues in a few years, springs are forever.

Air bags and springs don't make your truck carry more.


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Have used mind now for 7+ years, still going strong.

[Homebrew]

Originally Posted by Scotty

Have used mind now for 7+ years, still going strong.

The local installer told a couple Ford friends that the springs are better and less aggravation if not full time towing. They both said he mentioned air bags cracking if not exercised frequently. Maybe it's a brand thing, maybe it's a newer model thing. I do know rubber and compressors fail. Steel spring normally last as long as you have a truck.
Adding springs was less expensive than adding air bags.

As with all items the older stuff worked, the newer stuff is crap.




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[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

The local installer told a couple Ford friends that the springs are better and less aggravation if not full time towing. They both said he mentioned air bags cracking if not exercised frequently. Maybe it's a brand thing, maybe it's a newer model thing. I do know rubber and compressors fail. Steel spring normally last as long as you have a truck.
Adding springs was less expensive than adding air bags.

As with all items the older stuff worked, the newer stuff is crap.




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I don't know about other brands but the AirLift springs have a lifetime warranty.

[doc73]

Like I said.. Used my Airlift on a lifted Jeep rock-crawler then pulled a popup for years... If I did not break em they must be good... And I've broke some stuff! LOL

[PenJoe]

Not sure what basis this installer is using. Air bags cracking if not used frequently sounds more like muscle atrophy. Normally, UV is the biggest enemy of rubber and bags are not exposed to direct UV as are tires. Springs are subject to constant load and rust-and they also have some rubber components. Nothing is forever.

[muddyrode]

If you were to tye both air bags to the same air line you would still get body roll as the air would travel between the air bags, but if you have seperate lines to each air bag you will greatly improve the body roll

[PenJoe]

Muddyroad, that makes perfect sense. Thank heavens I have done separate lines.