Andersen WDH w/sway control on a 1905 MiniLite...

[6CatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Steamboat

I have a 2017 FR 1905 MINI LITE that I pull with a 1/2 ton pick up and I have the equal-li-zer WDH and could not be happier. Great smooth ride with no bounce. I've had other WDH and would always go back to the Equal-li-zer brand!

Any chance you could post what model number or weight rated Equal i zer you have on yours that you are happy with?

That would be a big help.

Thanks!

[thebrakeman]

I still agree about giving it a try with just the friction sway controller. However, guess what?
You will need to either weld or screw the sway ball bracket to the camper frame to use a friction sway controller. It's absolutely not a problem to do this. But you said you didn't like that idea. If you are set against it, then yeah, get a WDH with sway control.


Equalizer does not require any drilling. If your TW will remain under 500 lbs, then I'd get the kit rated for 600lbs TW. If you might exceed 500 lbs, go for the 1,000 lbs rated unit. Equalizer does not make an 800 lbs kit. Customer service is great with Equalizer. Give them a call and talk to someone in technical support.


But again, I think you should try things with just a friction sway controller first, for minimal expense.

[hbillsmith]

Check out the Andersen WDH hitch it provides both weight distro and anti-sway. I used it back when I pulled my 6,000# TT with our MB GL450 SUV. It does not require welding or drilling and is light weight and easy to put on and take off. Here's a link:

Compares Andersen to traditional spring bar WDH

Andersen WDH Installation How To Video

[510Rick]

Originally Posted by 6CatDaddy

Haha, I hear ya.

Hey if space at home was not an issue I'd have a diesel dually and a 35 foot 5er.

Nah, we have had big tt in the past. Only used at seasonal sites, did no travelling... just me and the bride now, she is the camper and she would have been happy to go out yonder in a popup.

I wanted the solid sides, I think the 1905 will be just what we need...

We'll be "glampin it up" in our single axle.

I hope you guys love it !!! I think as long as you get some type of anti-sway you will ok .

[thebrakeman]

That video for the Andersen is ridiculously exaggerated.
It doesn't even show the trailer moving upward as either of the systems are engaged. And it shows motion in both the bars and the chains that are so grossly exaggerated, to the point of impossibility.
1. When you lift up on the spring bar, the truck, hitch head, and trailer coupler are all lifted together. Likewise, when you pull back on the Andersen chains, the coupler is lifted (but only to a certain point, after which the Andersen stops transferring weight, which is problematic).
2. They show coloring on the spring bars, indicating an overload condition. But as anybody knows, you simply choose the correct bars rated for TW, and you rest assured that the bar is designed to handle the TW in all situations. Has anybody ever heard of somebody breaking a spring bar in half?!!

[6CatDaddy]

Originally Posted by thebrakeman

I still agree about giving it a try with just the friction sway controller. However, guess what?
You will need to either weld or screw the sway ball bracket to the camper frame to use a friction sway controller. It's absolutely not a problem to do this. But you said you didn't like that idea. If you are set against it, then yeah, get a WDH with sway control.


Equalizer does not require any drilling. If your TW will remain under 500 lbs, then I'd get the kit rated for 600lbs TW. If you might exceed 500 lbs, go for the 1,000 lbs rated unit. Equalizer does not make an 800 lbs kit. Customer service is great with Equalizer. Give them a call and talk to someone in technical support.


But again, I think you should try things with just a friction sway controller first, for minimal expense.

Thanks!

I am gonna go with the Equal i Zer 600/6000.

Cost is more than the friction bar, but I will feel better with this set up... the togue weight issue is tedius... 389lbs dry tw, the 600 rating is close, but the next step up is 1000/10,000 and that seems too big a jump.

[Tdbrn]

When we bought our 2015 T28RKX Wildcat Maxx in October 2014, we went with the Anderson, I liked the idea but wasn't 'sold' on something new.
Then in use, we LOVED IT!
We've used Reese and the like WD hitches over the years and I've liked the Anderson best of all. The Maxx is 33 feet long and close to 8,000 pounds loaded for our trips.
There IS a learning curve after getting it on the truck and trailer. Loosening or disconnecting one side chain or the other if not PERFECTLY lined up to reconnect is one thing, or trying to turn the whole rig one way or the other is the way the manual talks about.
You'll also use your tongue jack a bit more as you need to take the weight off the hitch and then back on when connecting or disconnecting to get the lower plate on and off.
With time it gets considerably easier, but at first, it can be very frustrating!
I liked the no more greasing the hitch ball, but there will be black dust all over the place with use, I put a rubber ball cover on the hitch ball when not in use to keep it down. With our trailer, it worked fine with the weight distribution aspect and we could feel the difference too.
I also loved the quiet ride! No more clanking and loud groaning as the usual hitches do.

[6CatDaddy]

Originally Posted by 510Rick

I hope you guys love it !!! I think as long as you get some type of anti-sway you will ok .

Thanks!

We are looking forward to it.

We are gonna like it for sure.

[Tdbrn]

I just got the post reply about the Anderson and needing some kind of anti-sway control? No.......you don't'!
That's part of using the Anderson, the captured ball, chain and cushion arrangment take care of sway too.
We never had any sway issues with our Wildcat Maxx and at 33 feet you would feel it if there were!

[6CatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Tdbrn

I just got the post reply about the Anderson and needing some kind of anti-sway control? No.......you don't'!
That's part of using the Anderson, the captured ball, chain and cushion arrangment take care of sway too.
We never had any sway issues with our Wildcat Maxx and at 33 feet you would feel it if there were!

Boy I sure don't want to start a Ford vs Chevy for hitches...

I am thankful for all input!

I am gonna go with the Equal i zer for my personal reasons I posted earlier...

Even though the original post, I was gonna go, thinking about the Andersen... but after reading and looking, I went with the greasey noisey Equal i Zer. Haha.

Thanks to all who posted!

[goduc]

Originally Posted by thebrakeman

That video for the Andersen is ridiculously exaggerated.
It doesn't even show the trailer moving upward as either of the systems are engaged. And it shows motion in both the bars and the chains that are so grossly exaggerated, to the point of impossibility.
1. When you lift up on the spring bar, the truck, hitch head, and trailer coupler are all lifted together. Likewise, when you pull back on the Andersen chains, the coupler is lifted (but only to a certain point, after which the Andersen stops transferring weight, which is problematic).
2. They show coloring on the spring bars, indicating an overload condition. But as anybody knows, you simply choose the correct bars rated for TW, and you rest assured that the bar is designed to handle the TW in all situations. Has anybody ever heard of somebody breaking a spring bar in half?!!

If you raise the truck and TT up before setting the chains and lower after that you still get the same transfer of weight process. The Andersen works great with lighter TW TT's or heavy TW TT's and HD trucks. It's flaw is that it has a hard time transferring heavy TW's on lighter sprung trucks and SUV's.
FWIW I used it on with my 12 Ram CTD and a 31' 7300 lb TT that had a 900 lb TW. It worked great with my truck.
However it won't work well if I had a 1/2 ton truck where the rear sags 2-3" and the front needs to be returned a lot to get to the OEM height.

[thebrakeman]

Yep, that seems to be the consensus.
If you stay well away from the limits of the tow vehicle, the Andersen can be a very good choice.

[GrayghostUSA]

From an engineering design standpoint I really like the Anderson WDH. I have zero experience with it. For that matter we haven't bought a trailer yet. At this point the leaders in this race are the Vibe 258RKS and the Anderson WDH. I have bought a truck and if my math is correct I am well within the envelope for good towing. I have only got 1200 miles on my F-150 Super Cab XLT 4WD 3.5L EcoBoost with the 10 speed tranny max tow package, 3.55 Rear Axle and 18" wheels. The 'book'/stickers say 7050 GVWR, Truck load capacity 1940, 17100 GCWR, maximum loaded trailer weight 11900. I compute the tongue weight of the Vibe with the Anderson at 966. I wish the tongue weight was lighter. With the dry weight of the Vibe I should have a 35% safety margin.

Anyone with time to spare let me know where I have erred or added 2 + 2 and gotten 7.

[GrayghostUSA]

Edit....Vibe 268RKS. Don't know how that 5 sneaked in there

[thebrakeman]

The Andersen is a neat concept, and seems great for sway control, and keeping grease off your leg-hair. And you could consider it a good engineering design, for those tasks.


But as a means for transferring weight back to the front wheels, it's the wrong type of engineering. Transferring weight is the main goal, and to do that, you need to generate upward force at the hitch.


A traditional WDH does this DIRECTLY. You lift up on the spring bars, and either support them with the chains/snapup brackets, or you support them on some other form of bracket. Point being, the load is held vertically.


The Andersen holds the load horizontally, which becomes a problem inevitably.


Imagine attaching a chain to a wall, with you holding the other end in-hand. Attach a 10 lbs weight in the middle, and pull hard on the chain. I'll bet that most people could pull hard enough get that chain pretty much straight, but what you would not see is that it's not completely straight.


Now, attach 100 lbs weight in the middle, and try pulling. You would quickly illustrate the problem, as the chain would remain in a pronounced "V" because you can't pull hard enough. Yes, the threaded coupling of the Andersen system can generate more force.


But the point is that even with an infinite amount of force, you could only get the system "almost" to the neutral/straight point. You could NEVER actually lift the weight beyond neutral, when all you are doing is pulling horizontally. This is why nobody has ever been able to transfer all lost weight with an Andersen, unless they are running FAR, FAR below the capability of the truck.


Contrast this with the traditional WDH. By pulling directly upward, you have to actually be careful not to transfer too much weight.


Again, I not trying to poop on a system, for what it is. Just be sure you know what you are/aren't getting. It's a good sway control system, and is very light and easy to use. But as a WD tool, it's quite lacking.

[GrayghostUSA]

I'm going to have to politely disagree.

I drew a quick sketch to clarify in my mind what is going on. This is a very simplified sketch. If I remember correctly the Anderson brackets mount 27" from the hitch ball. I chose 8" because I don't know any better and used a 5 degree deflection for the trig.

The top sketch shows a perfect world with everything level and weight distributed evenly.

The middle sketch shows a 5 degree depression. The front of the tow vehicle is being lifted as is the tail of the trailer. As everything rotates around the hitch ball two triangles can be drawn and solved for. When you force a hook up with a 27" bar or chain the geometry is drawn back to the first figure.

By shortening the bar or chain by the same 0.802" we arrive at a 5 degree arrangement that forces more weight to the front and rear axles. I have to admit I didn't calculate this one, I just used the value arrived at for the middle sketch.

So I don't see any "uplift" there is only the control of the rotation around the hitch ball as the central pivot. A quick Google of "weight distribution hitches" show as many with a vertical chain as with a vertical steel member so I don't see inclusion of a chain in the design as a factor. In all designs the chain is under tension.

This is all extremely simplified so there are surely points that are not covered.

Again, I am a newbie to this world and am open to having my math proven wrong.

Thanks for taking the time with me.

[thebrakeman]

Yeah, it's difficult to describe with words, and I honestly applaud your sketching stills. But respectfully, your diagrams illustrate how the traditional WDH spring bar (rigid) works, but not at all how the Andersen works.


Let me describe what I mean by "vertical loading" vs "horizontal loading. Imagine you have the trailer attached, but no WDH engaged. And imagine you and a buddy are infinitely strong. :-)
A. Traditional spring bars WDH. You grab the end of one of the bars, and your buddy grabs the other. Which direction do you move the end of the bars to engage the system? Vertically, right? You lift the ends of the bars, and the entire coupler lifts, leveling the rig. It's the same thing that happens when snap-up brackets are used to lift the chains, which lift the bars. So, engagement by lifting in the vertical direction.


B. Now, the Andersen. You and the same buddy grab the end of each chain, that is dangling on the ground. Stretch them horizontally into position. Now, to engage, do you lift up on the chains? No. The action by which the Andersen system works, when you tighten the threads, is to pull rearward "horizontally" on the chains. Lifting the ends of the chains vertically would do nothing, unless you were standing over the ball, with the chains pointed straight up.


Completely different engineering free-body-diagram between these mechanisms.

[GrayghostUSA]

I can see where we differ.

You hook up your trailer and the rear end of the tow vehicle drops by a measurable amount. You engage the tongue jack and as the tongue rises it lifts the rear end of the tow vehicle back to level and then a little beyond. Without the need for infinite strength you insert your leveling bars in the bottom of the coupler and LIFT the rear of the bars up to a location where it is possible to connect to the mounting brackets. You lower the tongue jack and the rig settles down until the rotation about the hitch ball is restricted by the leveling bars.

Lifting the leveling bars does NOT lift the coupler. The coupler is fixed in the receiver and cannot lift. The only motion possible is rotation about the hitch ball by the trailer coupler like a ball and socket joint.

The hitch bars have to have some flex built into them to allow compensation for bumps and such in the road. A friends hitch has a 90 degree, radiused bend in the front and they are inserted into the bottom of the coupler in a vertical motion. This bend is a flex point and the rear is fixed. Others use a vertical chain at the rear to allow flex.

This is exactly how the Anderson hitch works. It and the ones you describe work exactly the same. The difference is in the details.

Again you hook up the trailer and the tow vehicle sags. you lift the entire rig with the tongue jack until you have the slack necessary to fasten the triangle plate to the bottom of the coupler. You lower the tongue jack and the rig settles down until the rotation about the hitch ball is restricted by the chains on the Anderson.

The flex on the system is permitted by the compressible bushing.

There is no lift of the coupler. If it moves in any direction we are totally and completely screwed. There is only rotation around the hitch ball. Both systems work exactly the same but by different approaches.

In my humble opinion this is how it works. I really don't have time to draw the force diagrams. Your last post caused me to spend way too much time scratching my head. I think you bruised my brain.

[thebrakeman]

You don't understand that there is no difference between the 2 methods you described for engaging a traditional WDH. Whether you use the tongue jack or not, the loading mechanism is, in the end, the same.

If you have the bars loaded into the head, then raise the coupler with the tongue jack, you WILL notice the head/coupler lifting and rotating, until the bars are high enough to engage the rear-ends of the bars. Or, if you have an old-style WDH with the snap-up brackets, you can use the provided engagement levers to pry the brackets upward, which manually lift the ends of the spring-bars into place. By this same action, you WOULD see the coupler lift/rotate into place.

You say that the coupler is fixed and can not lift. But you don't understand that it can lift, in fact it MUST lift, because it actually lifts the rear suspension, taking weight off of the rear wheels, and distributing it to the front wheels. If the rear end does not lift, then there is no weight distribution.

I know, because I have a camper and a WDH, and observe this every time I go camping. You said that you don't have a WDH yet, nor even a trailer. Have you ever seen a WDH in action? I encourage you to find a friend with a camper, and see for yourself. I think it would be eye-opening, and it may help you make your decision.

I think we've hijacked this thread long enough. Good luck, and happy camping.

[GrayghostUSA]

[/QUOTE] I think we've hijacked this thread long enough. Good luck, and happy camping.[/QUOTE]

I still disagree with all but your last line but I thank you for your time and patience. Have a great weekend!