Another pin weight calculator - need testers

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

But to my feeble mind, the actual weight is needed regardless of the meaningless percentage. Being a little fictitious, what makes the difference if it is 10% or 30% as long as the actual weight is within the lawyer stickers?

How do you suggest someone estimate the pin weight for a brand new model to the market while they're researching what to buy?

[ependydad]

Herk! Thank you for being wrong! You blew my mind with being 8% lower!

[sidney]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

But to my feeble mind, the actual weight is needed regardless of the meaningless percentage. Being a little fictitious, what makes the difference if it is 10% or 30% as long as the actual weight is within the lawyer stickers?

You seem to be missing the point.

You are right... it doesn't make a difference what the percent ratio is...

but if you know it... as Doug calculator can provide...

you use it as a tool to estimate what the loaded pin weight would be before purchasing.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by ependydad

Herk! Thank you for being wrong! You blew my mind with being 8% lower!

That was bothering me all day. I went back and (wouldn't you know it) picked a different (and wrong) one to correct my numbers.

It is correct below now. Feel terrible.
I am coming down with CRS these days...

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by herk7769

OC,

What we are trying to do is to answer the age old question; "Can my truck pull this?" BEFORE they buy it.

By using the floorplan's dry weight and pin/tongue (Yes, I know meaningless), we think we can predict within a percent what the pin/tongue load will be for an camper at its GVWR.

For example using the attached brochure from 2010 (since it is there) and we look at a Flagstaff 8528RLWS with a dry weight of 6830 and a dry pin of 1187 we get a pin ratio of 17.4%

At its max GVWR of 9187, THAT MODEL of camper should have a pin fully loaded around 1600 pounds. If your existing truck (loaded for camping with family, gear, hitch, gas, etc.) does not have a REMAINING payload of 1600 pounds, that model/floorplan is too much for your truck.

So the calculator seems to be running fairly close with verified numbers (except for my mistake).

STILL, IMO, the best way is to use the "optimum" 5th wheel pin ratio (20%) times the GVWR and see if you can carry that. (12% for a TT)
Then you can play with loading to move the weight around some.

That make sense to try to predict with some degree of accuracy what the loaded pin weight will be, but whether it is 10% or 30% is of no consequence.

[sidney]

Hmm...


should I use my power of invisibility for good or evil?

[AquaMan]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

That make sense to try to predict with some degree of accuracy what the loaded pin weight will be, but whether it is 10% or 30% is of no consequence.

Oh come on Coot. To "predict with some degree of accuracy" and not use the figures handed to you from the factory? The whole calculation scenario is a "what if" from the start. If you already have a fifth and you're slightly intrigued about whether you are within limits or not, you take it to a scale. If you're shopping, the best method is to use calculations from given data, his calculator does this.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by AquaMan

Oh come on Coot. To "predict with some degree of accuracy" and not use the figures handed to you from the factory? The whole calculation scenario is a "what if" from the start. If you already have a fifth and you're slightly intrigued about whether you are within limits or not, you take it to a scale. If you're shopping, the best method is to use calculations from given data, his calculator does this.

Not what I said AquaMan, I agree with the calculations using the percentages, I just said it didn't make any difference whether the percentage was 10% or 30% as it is just a multiplier. If the dry wt % is 10% fine, use it, if it just happened to be 30%, use 30%. I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily have to be between normally accepted values between 15%-25%.

Also, if my weight was within the lawyer sticker wt and it turns out to be 30% instead of in the range of 15-25, it's no big deal.

Keep cool Timmy.

[ependydad]

OC, so you're agreeing with the premise of the calculator? I feel like we're trying too hard if we're in agreement...

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

That make sense to try to predict with some degree of accuracy what the loaded pin weight will be, but whether it is 10% or 30% is of no consequence.

You're right- the actual percentage is inconsequential - but it then gives you a multiplier to use against either GVWR or against an estimated actual loaded weight to come up with a close to realistic loaded pin weight (which you can the decide to go with or against the truck's stickers).

On the "Advanced" calculator that I have, I show the percentage, but down lower, I do the math to show the possible/likely pin weight and even break it down for axle weights for those who want to know.

[Oakman]

I wonder how well the calculator would work with a StoneRidge 36RK or 36UL? Both models have huge rear storage compartments far behind the axles. I’ve often wondered how the pin weight of those two RVs would be affected if only the rear storage area was used and the front storage left empty. I was very tempted to buy one of these tri-level models when we were looking for a new fifth wheel a couple of years ago.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by ependydad

OC, so you're agreeing with the premise of the calculator? I feel like we're trying too hard if we're in agreement...

Might be beneficial for those looking to buy a 5er and having the opinion that the lawyer stickers could not be violated by any amount. I just don't happen to believe the stickers are absolute. Experienced to many stickers being massaged by lawyers ignoring the actual engineering test data.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by Oakman

I wonder how well the calculator would work with a StoneRidge 36RK or 36UL? Both models have huge rear storage compartments far behind the axles. I’ve often wondered how the pin weight of those two RVs would be affected if only the rear storage area was used and the front storage left empty. I was very tempted to buy one of these tri-level models when we were looking for a new fifth wheel a couple of years ago.

That's definitely a shortcoming of the tool - there's no way of knowing that he average person with camper X is going to increase the percentage by X% but the average person of camper Y is going to decrease the percentage by Y%. Too many variables outside of getting it close and hoping for a better swag than simply saying "20-25% of the loaded weight".

Either way, I'd love to see scale stickers for folks with those and how much they swing in pin weight changes they see with changes in their loading patterns.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Might be beneficial for those looking to buy a 5er and having the opinion that the lawyer stickers could not be violated by any amount. I just don't happen to believe the stickers are absolute. Experienced to many stickers being massaged by lawyers ignoring the actual engineering test data.

You don't agree with those stickers? Color me shocked.

Where's that dead horse icon when I need it?

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by ependydad

You don't agree with those stickers? Color me shocked.

Where's that dead horse icon when I need it?

Just sat in too many meetings with lawyers playing CYA on things like this for 40 yrs or more.

[sidney]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Just sat in too many meetings with lawyers playing CYA on things like this for 40 yrs or more.

OC... here's a lawyers sticker from a 2012 Flagstaff 8528RKWS.

Do you ignore these as well when loading your trailer?

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

That make sense to try to predict with some degree of accuracy what the loaded pin weight will be, but whether it is 10% or 30% is of no consequence.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

It is well established that for safe handling there is a ratio (expressed as a percent of total trailer weight) that must be carried by the towing vehicle.

8 - 14% of camper weight must lie on the tongue and 15-25% must ride on the pin.

Optimum handling occurs at 12% for travel trailers and 20% for 5th wheels.

Trying to size your camper so that the pin load on the truck falls in the safe zone ( as close to optimum as possible) and still not exceed available truck payload requires some forethought.

It would be great to have a tool that will give you some idea before you pull the trigger on too much camper.

[Herk7769]

I read some of these posts and feel we are diverging from the reason for the thread.

- What follows is a rant ----

This is NOT, repeat NOT, as discussion about exceeding limits; whether limits are hard and fast; or anything BUT a loose idea if a particular floor plan and maximum weight are "right" for your truck (ONLY IF YOU CARE).

That ELIMINATES all you out there in the DON'T CARE camp. So please avoid posting if you are them...

Help add to the process, or stay away. Lots of other places you can spend your keystrokes. Thank you in advance.

[OldCoot]

I think what ependydad has created is great for those buying a trailer or tow vehicle.

[CZNEDY]

Crickets...............