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Old 12-04-2013, 06:34 PM   #11
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I have to ask what to you folks might seem a dumb question. What makes the difference what percentage the dry pin weight is or the wet pin weight? Isn't it the actual pin weight the important thing?
For folks who want to stay within ratings (and I understand that this isn't important to you nor do you understand why it's important to some of us) - it is a way of estimating before you own your fifth wheel (or are trying to pick which fifth wheel matches a truck).
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:35 PM   #12
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I have to ask what to you folks might seem a dumb question. What makes the difference what percentage the dry pin weight is or the wet pin weight? Isn't it the actual pin weight the important thing?
Good question.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:37 PM   #13
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And since the wet percentage can be higher than the dry percentage, if can give a false sense of security that someone will be within their ratings at 18% but are over at 22%. (True story from someone I swapped PMs with- he exceeded GVWR, RAWR and tire load capacity with the difference.)
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:39 PM   #14
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And, re-reading your question - yes, the actual pin weight is much better, but I was thinking of this as a pre-purchase tool. Once the person owns the camper, this tool becomes moot and the person should get scaled and weighed.
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:53 PM   #15
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For folks who want to stay within ratings (and I understand that this isn't important to you nor do you understand why it's important to some of us) - it is a way of estimating before you own your fifth wheel (or are trying to pick which fifth wheel matches a truck).
Understand the desire for pin weights and the desire some have to stay within the lawyer stickers, just do not understand the desire for the percentages.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:04 PM   #16
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Understand the desire for pin weights and the desire some have to stay within the lawyer stickers, just do not understand the desire for the percentages.
My hope was that it was a better method than the standard spiel of "fifth wheel pin weights are 20-25% with fringe cases being as low as 15%". If you know the design-time percentage, is it realistic to extrapolate what a loaded pin weight *might* be?

My camper holds it close to true - dry pin weight is 16.5% or something and loaded pin weight is 18%. Where my flaw comes from is other campers - I've seen one case where the difference was like 5% and another case where the person intentionally loads the camper so that there is a -8% difference. In the 8% less case, his scaled pin weight is less than the advertised dry pin weight. (Which this whole paragraph basically makes your point and I get that. Just being idealistic that math and logic can be applied to this.)
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:07 PM   #17
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Understand the desire for pin weights and the desire some have to stay within the lawyer stickers, just do not understand the desire for the percentages.
The percentage in itself is not important.

Doug's method calculates percent ratio of the dry pin weight to dry total weight.

You the use this % ratio to calculate the estimated loaded pin weight based on the estimated loaded (wet) weight of the trailer.

Understand?
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:17 PM   #18
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My hope was that it was a better method than the standard spiel of "fifth wheel pin weights are 20-25% with fringe cases being as low as 15%". If you know the design-time percentage, is it realistic to extrapolate what a loaded pin weight *might* be?

My camper holds it close to true - dry pin weight is 16.5% or something and loaded pin weight is 18%. Where my flaw comes from is other campers - I've seen one case where the difference was like 5% and another case where the person intentionally loads the camper so that there is a -8% difference. In the 8% less case, his scaled pin weight is less than the advertised dry pin weight. (Which this whole paragraph basically makes your point and I get that. Just being idealistic that math and logic can be applied to this.)
But to my feeble mind, the actual weight is needed regardless of the meaningless percentage. Being a little fictitious, what makes the difference if it is 10% or 30% as long as the actual weight is within the lawyer stickers?
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:19 PM   #19
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So, given some feedback that I've received so far of folks who used my calculator and then compared it against their scaled receipts. It's somewhere between and and at how far off it is.

What I'm finding is that there seems to be little correlation between the dry pin weight percentage and the actual wet/loaded pin weight percentage. In different cases, I'm seeing anything from +0.5% to +4.5% to -8% (yes, *minus eight percent*).

So now the real question is- is there any usefulness in a tool like this that cannot handle the variance of actual campers out there?
That was my mistake! I used the numbers "dry" from the rear kitchen model not my mid kitchen one.

The correct numbers are 6660 dry with 1121 on the pin.
My "DRY" pin is 16.9%

My yellow "as built" weight is 7219 about 700 pounds heavier

My loaded scaled weight is 9,060 with a 1360 pound pin (15%).

So from my numbers the dry percentage is a bit heavy. I store a lot of gear (booze mostly) in the dinette and pantry located in the back of the camper which lightens the pin.

Herk - sorry again for the bad data I passed you.
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Old 12-04-2013, 07:32 PM   #20
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But to my feeble mind, the actual weight is needed regardless of the meaningless percentage. Being a little fictitious, what makes the difference if it is 10% or 30% as long as the actual weight is within the lawyer stickers?
OC,

What we are trying to do is to answer the age old question; "Can my truck pull this?" BEFORE they buy it.

By using the floorplan's dry weight and pin/tongue (Yes, I know meaningless), we think we can predict within a percent what the pin/tongue load will be for an camper at its GVWR.

For example using the attached brochure from 2010 (since it is there) and we look at a Flagstaff 8528RLWS with a dry weight of 6830 and a dry pin of 1187 we get a pin ratio of 17.4%

At its max GVWR of 9187, THAT MODEL of camper should have a pin fully loaded around 1600 pounds. If your existing truck (loaded for camping with family, gear, hitch, gas, etc.) does not have a REMAINING payload of 1600 pounds, that model/floorplan is too much for your truck.

So the calculator seems to be running fairly close with verified numbers (except for my mistake).

STILL, IMO, the best way is to use the "optimum" 5th wheel pin ratio (20%) times the GVWR and see if you can carry that. (12% for a TT)
Then you can play with loading to move the weight around some.
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