I have been working on a web page for calculating pin weight percentages based on dry weights + then estimated an actual loaded weight for folks who want to get an idea of what their pin weight might be on a specific camper. It's largely geared towards fifth wheels as that's what I'm most familiar with, but I think it should work with TTs.
Anyway, if you're willing to test this out and are relatively "in the know" on weights and calculations, please PM me.
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
I will. I want to make sure it's working right before I go and publish it.
It's supposed to be a simple calculator - you enter the dry hitch weight and dry/unloaded vehicle weight and it figures out the pin percentage.
It lets you increase that by 0.5% - 1.5% which I've found based on loading of my front storage.
And it lets you estimate your actual camper's weight.
It should then give you the estimated pin weight for an actual loaded camper.
That's the theory, at least.
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
You could add in the estimated axle and tire loads, while you're at it. Simple enough to calculate, but for those who don't want to do the calculations, they could have it right in front of them.
True. Once I figure out the pin weight, it's just a matter of subtracting that from the camper's loaded weight.
I'm having a hard time deciding between too complex and keeping it simple enough that it's not intimidating (which was a HUGE issue for me as I was figuring this stuff out).
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
My thought would be to have the 2 dry figures you already talked about, and then have an input for additional cargo. From this you could essentially have 2 sets of figures, dry and cargo. As for the variance on percentage of pin weight, I would just put a set figure of 1%(split the difference), since this would be somewhat minimal, each unit is different, and no real way of figuring without actual weights.
Correlation between dry pin weight + loaded pin weight
So, given some feedback that I've received so far of folks who used my calculator and then compared it against their scaled receipts. It's somewhere between and and at how far off it is.
What I'm finding is that there seems to be little correlation between the dry pin weight percentage and the actual wet/loaded pin weight percentage. In different cases, I'm seeing anything from +0.5% to +4.5% to -8% (yes, *minus eight percent*).
So now the real question is- is there any usefulness in a tool like this that cannot handle the variance of actual campers out there?
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
Doug, I know for our rear kitchen 5vr, the dry and loaded pin weights were the same percentage. For most other layouts, that wouldn't apply. You can study the layout, look were the main storage areas are, what kind of weight you'd be putting there and the position relative to the axles, and come up with a WAG whether pin weight % will increase or decrease. In some case you can alter that outcome by loading different. In other cases there just isn't any storage areas of significance behind the axles on some 5vrs.
I have to ask what to you folks might seem a dumb question. What makes the difference what percentage the dry pin weight is or the wet pin weight? Isn't it the actual pin weight the important thing?
I have to ask what to you folks might seem a dumb question. What makes the difference what percentage the dry pin weight is or the wet pin weight? Isn't it the actual pin weight the important thing?
For folks who want to stay within ratings (and I understand that this isn't important to you nor do you understand why it's important to some of us) - it is a way of estimating before you own your fifth wheel (or are trying to pick which fifth wheel matches a truck).
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
I have to ask what to you folks might seem a dumb question. What makes the difference what percentage the dry pin weight is or the wet pin weight? Isn't it the actual pin weight the important thing?
And since the wet percentage can be higher than the dry percentage, if can give a false sense of security that someone will be within their ratings at 18% but are over at 22%. (True story from someone I swapped PMs with- he exceeded GVWR, RAWR and tire load capacity with the difference.)
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
And, re-reading your question - yes, the actual pin weight is much better, but I was thinking of this as a pre-purchase tool. Once the person owns the camper, this tool becomes moot and the person should get scaled and weighed.
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
For folks who want to stay within ratings (and I understand that this isn't important to you nor do you understand why it's important to some of us) - it is a way of estimating before you own your fifth wheel (or are trying to pick which fifth wheel matches a truck).
Understand the desire for pin weights and the desire some have to stay within the lawyer stickers, just do not understand the desire for the percentages.
Understand the desire for pin weights and the desire some have to stay within the lawyer stickers, just do not understand the desire for the percentages.
My hope was that it was a better method than the standard spiel of "fifth wheel pin weights are 20-25% with fringe cases being as low as 15%". If you know the design-time percentage, is it realistic to extrapolate what a loaded pin weight *might* be?
My camper holds it close to true - dry pin weight is 16.5% or something and loaded pin weight is 18%. Where my flaw comes from is other campers - I've seen one case where the difference was like 5% and another case where the person intentionally loads the camper so that there is a -8% difference. In the 8% less case, his scaled pin weight is less than the advertised dry pin weight. (Which this whole paragraph basically makes your point and I get that. Just being idealistic that math and logic can be applied to this.)
__________________
Officially a SOB with a 2022 Jayco Precept 36C
Checkout my site for RVing tips, tricks, and info | Was a Fulltime Family for 5 years, now we're part-timing on long trips
Understand the desire for pin weights and the desire some have to stay within the lawyer stickers, just do not understand the desire for the percentages.
The percentage in itself is not important.
Doug's method calculates percent ratio of the dry pin weight to dry total weight.
You the use this % ratio to calculate the estimated loaded pin weight based on the estimated loaded (wet) weight of the trailer.
Understand?
__________________
2014 CC 34RLSA
2013 RAM 3500 Laramie CC SB 4x4 CTD
My hope was that it was a better method than the standard spiel of "fifth wheel pin weights are 20-25% with fringe cases being as low as 15%". If you know the design-time percentage, is it realistic to extrapolate what a loaded pin weight *might* be?
My camper holds it close to true - dry pin weight is 16.5% or something and loaded pin weight is 18%. Where my flaw comes from is other campers - I've seen one case where the difference was like 5% and another case where the person intentionally loads the camper so that there is a -8% difference. In the 8% less case, his scaled pin weight is less than the advertised dry pin weight. (Which this whole paragraph basically makes your point and I get that. Just being idealistic that math and logic can be applied to this.)
But to my feeble mind, the actual weight is needed regardless of the meaningless percentage. Being a little fictitious, what makes the difference if it is 10% or 30% as long as the actual weight is within the lawyer stickers?
So, given some feedback that I've received so far of folks who used my calculator and then compared it against their scaled receipts. It's somewhere between and and at how far off it is.
What I'm finding is that there seems to be little correlation between the dry pin weight percentage and the actual wet/loaded pin weight percentage. In different cases, I'm seeing anything from +0.5% to +4.5% to -8% (yes, *minus eight percent*).
So now the real question is- is there any usefulness in a tool like this that cannot handle the variance of actual campers out there?
That was my mistake! I used the numbers "dry" from the rear kitchen model not my mid kitchen one.
The correct numbers are 6660 dry with 1121 on the pin.
My "DRY" pin is 16.9%
My yellow "as built" weight is 7219 about 700 pounds heavier
My loaded scaled weight is 9,060 with a 1360 pound pin (15%).
So from my numbers the dry percentage is a bit heavy. I store a lot of gear (booze mostly) in the dinette and pantry located in the back of the camper which lightens the pin.
Herk - sorry again for the bad data I passed you.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
But to my feeble mind, the actual weight is needed regardless of the meaningless percentage. Being a little fictitious, what makes the difference if it is 10% or 30% as long as the actual weight is within the lawyer stickers?
OC,
What we are trying to do is to answer the age old question; "Can my truck pull this?" BEFORE they buy it.
By using the floorplan's dry weight and pin/tongue (Yes, I know meaningless), we think we can predict within a percent what the pin/tongue load will be for an camper at its GVWR.
For example using the attached brochure from 2010 (since it is there) and we look at a Flagstaff 8528RLWS with a dry weight of 6830 and a dry pin of 1187 we get a pin ratio of 17.4%
At its max GVWR of 9187, THAT MODEL of camper should have a pin fully loaded around 1600 pounds. If your existing truck (loaded for camping with family, gear, hitch, gas, etc.) does not have a REMAINING payload of 1600 pounds, that model/floorplan is too much for your truck.
So the calculator seems to be running fairly close with verified numbers (except for my mistake).
STILL, IMO, the best way is to use the "optimum" 5th wheel pin ratio (20%) times the GVWR and see if you can carry that. (12% for a TT)
Then you can play with loading to move the weight around some.
__________________
Lou & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FL
Another pin weight calculator - need testers
and 
and 
at how far off it is.
I used the numbers "dry" from the rear kitchen model not my mid kitchen one.
Linear Mode
